Jazz and Knicks discussing Donovan Mitchell trade per Shams Charania and Tony Jones

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Rose is just grandstanding. It will probably cost him his job if he doesn't find a way to work it out. But the cost hasn't changed at all.

Ainge should just continue as planned. The trade does not have to be completed this year.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Brandon Ingram first 3 years stats:

13.9 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 2.9 APG, 45.8% from the field (11.5 attempts) and 32.9% from 3

RJ Barrett first 3 years stats:

17.5 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 2.9 APG, 41.8% from the field (15.1 attempts) and 35.7% from 3

This isn’t the end all be all of course but RJ is the exact type of piece we need in a Donovan deal. You bank on him becoming more efficient and he’s an all-star caliber type of player.

 

[Elizah Huge]

The only knock on Barrett is efficiency and if he was more efficient early on he wouldn’t be included in the deal at all lol.

He has the makings of being a pretty good shooter. His main inefficiency is with two-pointers which I think is fixable.

 

[MT Steve]

Brandon Ingram first 3 years stats:

13.9 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 2.9 APG, 45.8% from the field (11.5 attempts) and 32.9% from 3

RJ Barrett first 3 years stats:

17.5 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 2.9 APG, 41.8% from the field (15.1 attempts) and 35.7% from 3

This isn’t the end all be all of course but RJ is the exact type of piece we need in a Donovan deal. You bank on him becoming more efficient and he’s an all-star caliber type of player.

Eh. Ingram showed pretty significant improvement in efficiency from Year 1 to Year 2 and again from Year 2 to Year 3.

Barrett actually got a lot *worse* from Year 2 to Year 3.

 

[Shad]

RJ is vastly overrated.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Another reason I'm happy to keep RJ in NY is it complicates their cap situation and also makes it so their main lineup is four dudes that want to pound the rock with 0 dynamic pick and roll bigs. Sure, it could work, it could also be a cluster-****.

So if you can do that AND get more unprotected picks in the process, well, I'm about that.

 

[TheStormofWar]

View: https://twitter.com/TMKSESPN/status/1564697624002920449?s=20&t=NGQgUB1AwMcom_0qae7ErA

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Another reason I'm happy to keep RJ in NY is it complicates their cap situation and also makes it so their main lineup is four dudes that want to pound the rock with 0 dynamic pick and roll bigs. Sure, it could work, it could also be a cluster-****.

So if you can do that AND get more unprotected picks in the process, well, I'm about that.

Its weird because I think we come out of this with Grimes who is a much better fit than RJ. I think RJ might have fit what we would need better.

Again... I don't care if we do the RJ variation as much as just wanting a fair deal and wanting it before camp.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

View: https://twitter.com/TMKSESPN/status/1564697624002920449?s=20&t=NGQgUB1AwMcom_0qae7ErA

This line is out there... its kind of too simple though. We want Toppin/Grimes and likely IQ... we prefer unprotected picks. If they came with 4 unprotected picks I think we would do the deal though. At very least we need to swipe a couple of these players so they don't help NY later.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Another reason I'm happy to keep RJ in NY is it complicates their cap situation and also makes it so their main lineup is four dudes that want to pound the rock with 0 dynamic pick and roll bigs. Sure, it could work, it could also be a cluster-****.

So if you can do that AND get more unprotected picks in the process, well, I'm about that.

Because it will likely be easier to trade Randle and/or RJ the further they get into their deals (due either to years owed shrinking or PPP complications, respectively), and because the earlier part of the experiment is almost certain to be the rockiest period, 2023 has the chance to be a juicier pick than I think the Knicks would like to entertain. Like, I think the odds are ~50% that the 2023 pick is top-10.

 

[stitches]

Would you guys rather have Grimes or an unprotected 1st?

What if the offer was like their 26/28 1sts but we want 23 or 24 added.

Unprotected 1st. Easy.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

That is insanity to me. The Jazz will have no shortage of opportunity to find good role players which I think is how he projects.

If pieces like young players and protected picks fill in gaps between bigger pieces, that's fine. But an unprotected Knicks pick vs. Quentin Grimes? I don't understand how that's even a question (again, in the context of trading a mega-premium asset, we NEED to increase our chances at extracting a replacement level asset somewhere in the trove of the return).

If the idea is to tank, and keep your cap as open as you can to potentially do other trades for picks (buyout type situations), you want Grimes (or more picks really). We win fewer games, enhancing our picks, and have flexibility to get even more picks. Taking a $100M player when you are trying to tank goes against the grain a bit. If you are doing a minor reset, and trying to win, than yes, go for RJ.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Because they it will likely be easier to trade Randle and/or RJ the further they get into their deals (due either to years owed shrinking or PPP complications, respectively), and because the earlier part of the experiment is almost certain to be the rockiest period, 2023 has the chance to be a juicier pick than I think the Knicks would like to entertain. Like, I think the odds are ~50% that the 2023 pick is top-10.

I still think another variation is to allow them to send only 2 unprotected picks but make it 23/28... and then swap rights on 25/27/29 with the Minny pick... but then we take IQ/Toppin/Grimes. They struggle this year and we land a lotto pick and greatly enhance the value of the minny picks... we get all the protected picks they own... if the goal is to have something left to make another big move that meets their goals and gives us upside.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Another reason I'm happy to keep RJ in NY is it complicates their cap situation and also makes it so their main lineup is four dudes that want to pound the rock with 0 dynamic pick and roll bigs. Sure, it could work, it could also be a cluster-****.

So if you can do that AND get more unprotected picks in the process, well, I'm about that.

Its weird because I think we come out of this with Grimes who is a much better fit than RJ. I think RJ might have fit what we would need better.

Again... I don't care if we do the RJ variation as much as just wanting a fair deal and wanting it before camp.

I’m with you both on this. Trust me I like both the RJ and non-RJ variations of the deal.

 

[stitches]

So... let me get this straight. Yesterday, Woj did a virtual fellatio to Rose and tried to present him as this uncompromising negotiator who when forced with Jazz demands for RJ Barrett he played the Jazz and made them relinquish their demands for RJB by signing him to a 4/130 deal and the Jazz really wanted RJ. And then all trade talks broke down. But today, the Jazz and NYK have never been closer to a deal and they've made more progress in the last 48 hours(in which the Jazz coveted RJB was taken off the table) than in 5-6 weeks before. Yeah. I'm calling BS. Either the report from yesterday is BS or the report today is BS. Pick one. It can't be both.

 

[NUMBERICA]

I still think another variation is to allow them to send only 2 unprotected picks but make it 23/28... and then swap rights on 25/27/29 with the Minny pick... but then we take IQ/Toppin/Grimes. They struggle this year and we land a lotto pick and greatly enhance the value of the minny picks... we get all the protected picks they own... if the goal is to have something left to make another big move that meets their goals and gives us upside.

That's more sneaky than sexy but I think creativity in this way is might what wins the day.

 

[TheStormofWar]

So... let me get this straight. Yesterday, Woj did a virtual felatio to Rose and tried to present him as this uncompromising negotiator who when forced with Jazz demands for RJ Barrett he played the Jazz and made them relinquish their demands for RJB by signing him to a 4/130 deal and the Jazz really wanted RJ. And then all trade talks broke down. But today, the Jazz and NYK have never been closer to a deal and they've made more progress in the last 48 hours(in which the Jazz coveted RJB was taken off the table) than in 5-6 weeks before. Yeah. I'm calling BS. Either the report from yesterday is BS or the report today is BS. Pick one. It can't be both.

I'm inclined to think Woj was giving Rose some fellatio last night.

 

[David Stern]

Has the video on this article been discussed on here? https://saltcityhoops.com/does-the-barrett-extension-kill-jazz-knicks-talks/

I forgot about the TPEs we have; after seeing this break down, I don’t really see how it makes a trade significantly harder than 24 hours ago.

 

[Elizah Huge]

So... let me get this straight. Yesterday, Woj did a virtual fellatio to Rose and tried to present him as this uncompromising negotiator who when forced with Jazz demands for RJ Barrett he played the Jazz and made them relinquish their demands for RJB by signing him to a 4/130 deal and the Jazz really wanted RJ. And then all trade talks broke down. But today, the Jazz and NYK have never been closer to a deal and they've made more progress in the last 48 hours(in which the Jazz coveted RJB was taken off the table) than in 5-6 weeks before. Yeah. I'm calling BS. Either the report from yesterday is BS or the report today is BS. Pick one. It can't be both.

We wanted RJ included in the deal. We got as close as we’ve ever been in the last 48 hours (Sunday and Monday). Rose gave Ainge an ultimatum of completing the deal which was reportedly RJ/Fournier plus 5 1sts (2 unprotected and 3 protected). If they didn’t agree by Monday night Rose was going to complete the extension with RJ which would make trading for him harder. RJ’s camp was notified that he might be on the move to Utah somewhere in there before the extension.

The hang up on our end is we were reportedly asking for another unprotected 1st and Grimes to be added.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Rose is just grandstanding. It will probably cost him his job if he doesn't find a way to work it out. But the cost hasn't changed at all.

Ainge should just continue as planned. The trade does not have to be completed this year.

Leon Rose is doing the best team building the Knicks have seen in 20 years, he isn't getting fired.