What's new

Woj: Don to the Cavs for Markkanen, Agbaji, Sexton, three unprotected 1sts, two swaps, and a partridge in a pear tree.

RJ is better than any singular player we got. I laid out a Cleveland deal about a week before it happened and I thought they’d keep Lauri. I had close to the exact deal except Okoro/Windler instead of Lauri. Lauri + Sexton together is better than RJ alone.

I don’t think it’s mutually exclusive.
Maybe, maybe not. He's not proven by any stretch of the imagination. He's not especially good at any NBA skill to date. Vando is elite at a bunch of stuff and Sexton is elite as an isolated scorer. RJ has tools, but he hasn't shown an ability to apply them.
 
Rebounding, offensive rebounding, post defense for a few. Name one skill that RJ is top 80 percentile in, and then average out by contract value.
I guess this is a question of how granular you want to get with sub-sections. I would say he's an elite rebounder and a really good defensive player.
 
Can someone explain the RJ love? What do you see in him to have been so high about the possibility of a trade?
He has OK size as a wing and is decent enough at everything that you think he could one day be good at everything. Plus he shows nice flashes.

He is good at getting to the paint and drawing fouls. But that's really his only advanced skill atm.

Like I think his upside probably caps out at being a Gordon Hayward level impact player if he's lucky.
 
there is a ton to like about Barrett from a potential standpoint. size, athleticism, has a baseline as a shooter, a ton of potential as a defender, can put it on the floor, can pass, can get to the hoop. really nothing he can't do or doesn't have the potential to do really well. that's why people like him. i also get why people don't like him since i'm one of them.
 
I don’t think it was some amazing chess move by Altman. I think Ainge/Altman got into discussions before the weekend and I’m guessing the Cavs didn’t put their best offer on the table because they knew it likely would just get used to beat the Knicks offer anyways. The Jazz like the premise of the offer but know the Knicks can give up more. They cut off negotiations and the Jazz get serious with the Knicks.

Jazz/Knicks get deep into negotiations as reported throughout the weekend and into Monday night. Rose digs his grave by giving Ainge an ultimatum then extending RJ. News leaks that they have stopped conversations completely.

Now, here is where I think it was actually an amazing chess move by Zanik/Ainge. They knew they had framework of the Cavs offer they liked in their back pocket. Without that they likely go back to the drawing board with the Knicks. Knowing they had this they were willing to be firm with the Knicks and hold their ground.

Jazz/Cavs circle back with each other and Zanik/Ainge assure Altman if he puts his absolute best offer on the table then the Jazz wouldn’t circle back to the Knicks to use that as leverage against them. Here is where Agbaji was added and likely a pick swap or two. Altman literally offered everything he had to offer. I am super curious when the negotiations with Sexton started regarding his contract. Without him agreeing to it the deal doesn’t happen.

It is really fascinating stuff. A lot of variables and moving parts.
Yeah, the Sexton thing is very interesting. There were previous reports about the Jazz being interested in him in a SnT, but for Conley+/- stuff... Since Sexton was RFA, it's very possible the Jazz had already talked to him before that final offer(in relation to previous negotiations) and Sexton had given the OK to some framework of a contract.
 
They were worried about having enough assets for the second star but the problem is you have to secure the first star before you can do anything else.

Is it the end of the world? Of course not. They still have plenty of assets. Was it smart to have all of your young players in trade talks for two months and not trade any of them? Of course not. Let alone letting down your entire fan base.
The problem with the Knicks is that they don't really have the assets for a second star, because every single team that is selling a star will demand the best picks/package the Knicks can offer. And if the Knicks don't offer it, then a team like the Cavs will swoop in and offer it because they don't need to save their best stuff for one more star - they already have the core of their roster set. In essence the Knicks have the assets for 1 star and a few good role players(think Convington, Jerami Grant types).

You know who has the assets for 2... maybe even 3 stars right now? Ironically, it's the Jazz. And because tons of those are far far into the future so they will be available for a while.
 
Last edited:
The problem with the Knicks is that they don't really have the assets for a second star, because every single team that is selling a star will demand the best picks/package the Knicks can offer. And if the Knicks don't offer it, then a team like the Cavs will swoop in and offer it because they don't need to save their best stuff for one more star - they already have the core of their roster set. In essence the Cavs have the assets for 1 star and a few good role players(think Convington, Jerami Grant types).

You know who has the assets for 2... maybe even 3 stars right now? Ironically, it's the Jazz. And because tons of those are far far into the future so they will be available for a while.
And teams will ask for more from the Jazz because the Jazz have more. So I think it's kinda important to keep in mind that these picks might be best used as picks and not so much as trade assets.
 
The problem with the Knicks is that they don't really have the assets for a second star, because every single team that is selling a star will demand the best picks/package the Knicks can offer. And if the Knicks don't offer it, then a team like the Cavs will swoop in and offer it because they don't need to save their best stuff for one more star - they already have the core of their roster set. In essence the Cavs have the assets for 1 star and a few good role players(think Convington, Jerami Grant types).

You know who has the assets for 2... maybe even 3 stars right now? Ironically, it's the Jazz. And because tons of those are far far into the future so they will be available for a while.

Let’s just play a hypothetical really quick:

RJ + Grimes + 23/26/28 unprotected 1sts + pick swaps in 25/27 for Donovan

They wait until 2024 to make their next deal.

They then have their 24/30 unprotected 1sts with a 2029 pick swap + 4 protected 1sts + Toppin/Quickley

To me I would say that’s enough to get another star. Is another team turning down 2 unprotected 1sts + 4 protected 1sts + Toppin/Quickley?
 
Let’s just play a hypothetical really quick:

RJ + Grimes + 23/26/28 unprotected 1sts + pick swaps in 25/27 for Donovan

They wait until 2024 to make their next deal.

They then have their 24/30 unprotected 1sts with a 2029 pick swap + 4 protected 1sts + Toppin/Quickley

To me I would say that’s enough to get another star. Is another team turning down 2 unprotected 1sts + 4 protected 1sts + Toppin/Quickley?
By 24 it's very possible they don't have 4 protected 1st... Also... again ... when u r offering 24 unprotected in 23-24 for a second star, this is a useless pick. This does not have anywhere close to the value Cavs 27 and 29 hold... or NYK30. In essence this offer is one great pick and 5 trash ones + Toppin and Quickley... waiting to be paid or lost.

The Jazz got 5 assets better than the second best thing in this Knicks offer from the Cavs - 26-27-28-29 + Agbaji IMO are all better assets than those protected picks and 24 Knicks pick. There will be a team that will give similar offer to what the Cavs gave us... and the Knicks will lose that bidding war again. They just don't have enough high end firepower to get 2 stars IMO.
 
And teams will ask for more from the Jazz because the Jazz have more. So I think it's kinda important to keep in mind that these picks might be best used as picks and not so much as trade assets.
We actually don't really have any trade-asset picks still. Still short on second rounders. I guess we could create them with protected picks. I think the mystery of an unprotected pick would have us planning to keep the pick as the kind of picks we'd need to trade for guys would be protected picks. I'd like to see us pick up some protected picks a bit into the future, just to have as trade pieces. Not in lieu of unprotected picks, of course, but a good example would be if we were able to trade Beverley for some future top-18 protected pick, it would have been a hell of a lot better than whatever it was we think we got.
 
We actually don't really have any trade-asset picks still. Still short on second rounders. I guess we could create them with protected picks. I think the mystery of an unprotected pick would have us planning to keep the pick as the kind of picks we'd need to trade for guys would be protected picks. I'd like to see us pick up some protected picks a bit into the future, just to have as trade pieces. Not in lieu of unprotected picks, of course, but a good example would be if we were able to trade Beverley for some future top-18 protected pick, it would have been a hell of a lot better than whatever it was we think we got.
Should've been a piece of the big trade.
 
Top