Actually, it did this time around (even if it hadn't before).
Serious question: Why are people rooting for the Jazz to win this year?
- Thread starter green
- Start date
freakazoid
Well-Known Member
Agree.
To me, this just shows how unrealistic most Jazz fans are when it comes to rebuilding. We missed one season of playoffs last time around, so now, anything more than that, and we are in danger of becoming the T-Wolves or Clippers. Personally, I'm expecting 2 seasons missed, which will still be fantastic.
One thing I think a lot of people are overlooking, is the fact that Utah could possibly be looking at a ton of capsace next season. This is one reason I think they look to move Al if we're not in the playoff hunt. 2 lotto picks and a lot of capspace = Utah might be in a position to take a major step forward next year. It's not just about draft picks, but about the big picture in trying to build a team.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
Actually we missed the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons (2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06). Think this franchise wants to wait until 2013-14 to play in the postseason?
The point to remember is not every team will be an OKC and have a Kevin Durant led squad that can suck ***, stockpile lottery picks and then suddenly figure out how to win the following season. The Jazz aren't the first team in the history of the NBA to trade a superstar and attempt to rebuild around young talent. There have been numerous crash and burn scenarios with teams that at the time had more assets and a better looking young nucleus than the Jazz have now. Just because something looks good on paper - there have been far too many failures using this method to take any season for granted.
There has to be a balance between gaining experience for your young players as well as remaining competitive - because having your young players get their asses kicked every single night will do more harm than good. Nothing sucks more in professional sports than losing - it creates an incredibly negative atmosphere where some players start checking out, some start focusing more on their own numbers and that can spread like a disease where suddenly half the team is developing the bad habits that will squash whatever promising potential you thought you had.
It's very feasible for Utah to give their young players alot of NBA-experience while still playing their proven players enough to remain competitive each night. Tanking the season for the opportunity at more ping-pong balls would do more harm to our young core's development than help it.
Chris-L
Well-Known Member
Well said! Could not agree more.
green
Well-Known Member
Completely disagree. If the players start playing for stats, not trying hard, etc, then that is all on Corbin and he should and will be gone. To root for this team to barely miss the playoffs and the 13th pick instead of rooting for a top 3 pick is ludacrist.
Tanking the season and drafting a Durant or Kobe hurts us? Lol. Ask San Antonio how that hurt them. Ask OKC how that hurt them. Ask Cleveland how drafting LeBron hurt. Your argument is a cop-out. It's a short season. We aren't very good. Heck, I would argue rewarding Jefferson and Bell with minutes hurts morale more than losing. This is an opportunity for Utah to actually become a legit title contender the only way they can; through the draft. We aren't getting any free agents, and if we do not draft a superstar this year, we will lose Favors, Hayward, etc just like we did Deron.
But you enjoy your scrappy Jazz.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
It's not about being unrealistic. It's about what rebuilding actually is. I've said this before, but rebuilding is something that happens OFF the court. KOC is doing a superb job of this. We have very good veteran players/assets, a great nucleus of young talent, and everybody owed significant dollars is off the books in 2 years (translation: those guys are also very valuable as expirings in the year BEFORE the big tax hits come.)
Most rebuilding teams do not have the talent we have. The goal is to figure out which guys we want to build around. It might be the young guys. It might be that either Sap or Al blow up and trading one of the young guys is the best option. But in all scenarios, I'd rather be trading assets for bona fide NBA players than trying to have the most lottery picks on the roster. There's only ONE way to rebuild for the doormats of the league who only have youth and promise (and plenty of busts) on their roster. We have MULTIPLE ways to rebuild depending on how the cards fall.
Most rebuilding teams do not have the talent we have. The goal is to figure out which guys we want to build around. It might be the young guys. It might be that either Sap or Al blow up and trading one of the young guys is the best option. But in all scenarios, I'd rather be trading assets for bona fide NBA players than trying to have the most lottery picks on the roster. There's only ONE way to rebuild for the doormats of the league who only have youth and promise (and plenty of busts) on their roster. We have MULTIPLE ways to rebuild depending on how the cards fall.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
Do you realize how unsure the draft process really is? For every Durant, Kobe, and Lebron, there are countless guys who never succeeded. It's extremely unlikely (statistically) that a team, even high in the draft, will get a superstar.
green
Well-Known Member
Also, the Jazz are a great organization. They aren't the Clippers or Timberwolves or even the Bulls. They are run better. In fact, the only better run organizational may be the Spurs.
Second, Utah is in a great situation ala OKC. We have two very good young players in Favors and Hayward. We have two very promising players in Kanter and Burks. If we get a top three pick AND GS's pick, that will give us three top three picks, and two more lottery picks. Memo is coming off the books. Jefferson and Bell and CJ are next. Utah has talent, they have cap room, we are in a time that the Jazz can become legit title contenders in a screwed up system or they can be middle of the pack for the next ten years (when the next lockout happens).
Me, I'll take one crappy year, when we have no shot to win anything anyways, then 10 crappy years, knowing we can never get the talent the big market teams can because we just had to be scrappy and come in 9th place one year. That will Jefferson's legacy before he leaves, and that will be the reason why we will be trading Favors for picks in six years. No thanks.
vslice02
Well-Known Member
The Lakers didn't tank to get Kobe - unless you call their 53-29 record "tanking." The Spurs didn't tank the 96-97 season to get Duncan, their franchise player missed the entire season due to injury (Boston and NJ actually were the teams who intentionally "tanked" their season and the '97 draft worked out very well for them, didn't it?).
This is essentially like saying instead of putting your life savings into bonds or CD's, better to invest in powerball tickets. Real basketball isn't like a video game where no matter what happens in the season, as long as certain minutes and point averages are met a player's ratings will increase. If management takes a defeatist attitude toward the team this year, you substantially raise the risk of your players will develop a defeatist attitude. Comes down to attitude. You can either man up and try to make something positive happen or you can roll over and hope you get bailed out.
I wasn't expecting much from this team in terms of their record regardless, but it would be nice to win alot of games if for nothing more than to stick it to those "Jazz fans" who are misguidedly hoping the team loses big this season.
green
Well-Known Member
Top 3 picks:
Wall
Turner
Favors
Griffin
Thabeet
Harden
Rose
Beasley
Mayo
Oden
Durant
Horford
Bargnangi
Morrison
Aldridge
Bogut
Williams
Williams
Howard
Omakafur
Gordon
James
Milicic
Anthony
Ming
Williams
Dunleavy
Brown
Chandler
Gasol
In the last ten years, the top three picks have had four busts out of forty players, and two freak injuries. So six out of forty players didn't pan out (15%). Six were all american, all amazing (15%). And the other 28? Players that are good enough that they would never consider signing a contract in Utah until they had a career ending injury, but were still trying to hang on. This is our REALISTIC chance to hedge our bets that we will be a great team, and a TITLE contender. Not a division winner, not a playoff team, but have a REALISTIC chance to win it all.
green
Well-Known Member
First of all, I am not Jazz management. You are right about Jazz management. The Jazz are a business trying to make money and should never have that attitude...in public (just like SA). Secondly, about attitude. There is a really easy fix to this problem. Look at what the Lakers did. They had a problem with the attitude of their superstars (Kobe and Shaq). What did they do? They went out and brought in a coach that can get it done. If Corbin can't keep the players attitude up, find someone who can. Especially if you have talent.
Also, trying to have the Jazz come in ninth place this year to spite me is funny, because it hurts you just as much as it hurts me. We both get stuck with a Jazz team that will be trading away their best player for picks in six years. But, yeah, you stuck it to me.