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One Brow said:
Bucknutz (who says he is not conservative, but seems right-leaning to me)
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You consider me right-leaning because you’re left.
Im a huge believer in UBI. I believe it will be the future very soon, especially with how AI, robotics and technology is rapidly evolving. I think we should start planning and testing it now to be ready.

I also think we should have a national college (online and satellite sites) which is subsidized to give an option to people to get through college for free or a little money out of pocket. But limit it to only majors that are needed in our country.

I love the German model of health care. It was the best setup I have experienced. They also don’t push pills like in America. 7 day usage and then another Dr Appointment to get more or change things up. It’s a universal health care system.

If I said any of this on a right-leaning site, I would be laughed at and called a liberal or socialist.

These topics are really not brought up here recently so I haven’t posted my opinions. But if you want to chat about I would love to talk about them.
 
Bucknutz said:
You consider me right-leaning because you’re left.
Im a huge believer in UBI. I believe it will be the future very soon, especially with how AI, robotics and technology is rapidly evolving. I think we should start planning and testing it now to be ready.

I also think we should have a national college (online and satellite sites) which is subsidized to give an option to people to get through college for free or a little money out of pocket. But limit it to only majors that are needed in our country.

I love the German model of health care. It was the best setup I have experienced. They also don’t push pills like in America. 7 day usage and then another Dr Appointment to get more or change things up. It’s a universal health care system.

If I said any of this on a right-leaning site, I would be laughed at and called a liberal or socialist.

These topics are really not brought up here recently so I haven’t posted my opinions. But if you want to chat about I would love to talk about them.
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Agreed on the German health care system. Best I have personally had experience with.
 
Bucknutz said:
You consider me right-leaning because you’re left.
Im a huge believer in UBI. I believe it will be the future very soon, especially with how AI, robotics and technology is rapidly evolving. I think we should start planning and testing it now to be ready.

I also think we should have a national college (online and satellite sites) which is subsidized to give an option to people to get through college for free or a little money out of pocket. But limit it to only majors that are needed in our country.

I love the German model of health care. It was the best setup I have experienced. They also don’t push pills like in America. 7 day usage and then another Dr Appointment to get more or change things up. It’s a universal health care system.

If I said any of this on a right-leaning site, I would be laughed at and called a liberal or socialist.

These topics are really not brought up here recently so I haven’t posted my opinions. But if you want to chat about I would love to talk about them.
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I would love a discussion on UBI. I am not 100% sure it will really be necessary. I mean in 1920 they imagined that before long machines would improve productivity so much that people would only need to work 20hrs a week max and still make the same amount of money. Yes, the increased productivity happened, the reduced work week and higher pay per hour did not.

I'm sure leaders of industry will find ways to occupy the heard and keep their pay low enough that they'll be begging to work 50-60hrs a week so that they can live a one-tier up quality of life.
 
Gameface said:
I would love a discussion on UBI. I am not 100% sure it will really be necessary. I mean in 1920 they imagined that before long machines would improve productivity so much that people would only need to work 20hrs a week max and still make the same amount of money. Yes, the increased productivity happened, the reduced work week and higher pay per hour did not.

I'm sure leaders of industry will find ways to occupy the heard and keep their pay low enough that they'll be begging to work 50-60hrs a week so that they can live a one-tier up quality of life.
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That last part is so true. And the bigger driver is the fact that profit always needs to be higher, no matter how high it is. So cost/benefit analysis determines what mixture of machines and people generate the highest profit, and frankly to get machines to really replace people as has been postulated is prohibitively expensive, as is providing people with a "full-time" wage for what amounts to half of a "traditional" work-week. So they make the people work their 40 hours to get the work done to save some money and get the most bottom-line production from the people to maximize profits. Most of the largest companies could easily afford to pay people a full wage while giving them a shorter work-week, including benefits and all, and even full medical and such, but it would cut into profits more than they are willing to do. So unless the government forces their hand and makes them provide something different, then they will continue to drive profits as high as they can and give back to the workers exactly barely what they have to in order to maintain their profit-levels.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Well, part of that is the fact that profit always needs to be higher, no matter how high it is. So cost/benefit analysis determines what mixture of machines and people generate the highest profit, and frankly to get machines to really replace people as has been postulated is prohibitively expensive, as is providing people with a "full-time" wage for what amounts to half of a "traditional" work-week. So they make the people work their 40 hours to get the work done to save some money and get the most bottom-line production from the people to maximize profits. Most of the largest companies could easily afford to pay people a full wage while giving them a shorter work-week, including benefits and all, and even full medical and such, but it would cut into profits more than they are willing to do. So unless the government forces their hand and makes them provide something different, then they will continue to drive profits as high as they can and give back to the workers exactly barely what they have to in order to maintain their profit-levels.
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Do you see any reason why automation and AI would cause that dynamic to change?

@Bucknutz
You should start a UBI thread
 
Gameface said:
Do you see any reason why automation and AI would cause that dynamic to change?

@Bucknutz
You should start a UBI thread
Click to expand...
From my experience we are pretty far off from really replacing many people in the workplace, especially in jobs like my career has been, manufacturing and logistics. Yes we have more robots doing more work (AGVs, drones, conveyor systems, ASR systems, etc). For all the automated guided vehicles we use (AGVs), we still need people to keep them running, correct things when they mess up, and frankly mostly these are helping humans do their jobs more than replacing the humans in that job. We have AGVs in the warehouse that carries the product from the shelves to the pack stations, but they rely on humans to pick the items, verify the items, and put the items into bins the AGV carries, for example. So mostly now it is changing the skillsets needed and creating different roles we didn't know we needed before.

Have you seen the show "Humans"? It gets into the ramifications of the invention of AI androids that are capable of truly replacing humans, including social and workplace dynamics. It is really interesting. Of course they get more into the sentience debate, but even just the conversations around what the new synthetic humans can do - they call them synths - and actually replacing workers, are really interesting. But until we get to that level of AI, I just cannot see a wholesale replacement of humans in the workplace. And I see no incentive for any employer to reduce hours.

Even as we make people more productive, the most we do is release enough people that the remaining people still work some OT. I just do not ever see that changing, especially in our work culture where using all your PTO is viewed as slacking and people wear complete burn-out as a badge of honor. No way will business accept a 30 hour work week, even if it just means adding a few extra people, because then you have cost of benefits and everything else, and how can they be dedicated if they are working less than 5 days a week and less than 8-10 hours per day? That 40 hour+ work week is a permanent fixture in the US and I don't see it ever changing without legislation straight up mandating it. Even though they have done studies and shown that people usually are even more productive when we work them fewer hours and give them more time off, to the point where they easily make up for the extra time away from work. But in our culture, that is viewed as being lazy and the ones who move up are the ones replying to the group email at 2:30 am on a Saturday while everyone else is asleep. That guy is the go-getter, so he is the next promotion, regardless often of his actual ability. But he is so dedicated he is the guy responding to emails in off hours and in the middle of his vacation in Hawaii he is the guy that calls into the conference call anyway, whether he is needed or not, and that gets rewarded. It is exactly what business wants. So none of that is changing anytime soon.
 
The whole Qanon premise is so stupid. Its very hard to comprehend than anyone would find any truth in it. Donald Freaking Trump is going to eradicate a deep state cabal of pedophiles lol.
 
fishonjazz said:
The whole Qanon premise is so stupid. Its very hard to comprehend than anyone would find any truth in it. Donald Freaking Trump is going to eradicate a deep state cabal of pedophiles lol.
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It really is one of the most out there conspiracies I have ever seen. Just makes no sense at all. The level of delusion people must be living under to accept that kind of ******** must just be staggering. At that point they will literally believe anything. I mean anything. Tell them that moon-men hitched a ride to earth on a comet and now live in the tunnels of new york city controlling the stock markets around the globe so the democrats can fund hobo blood-letting satanic rituals to ensure they always get elected. I would bet it would be a matter of days before you saw moon-men t-shirts at these rallies. Insane.
 
LogGrad98 said:
It really is one of the most out there conspiracies I have ever seen. Just makes no sense at all. The level of delusion people must be living under to accept that kind of ******** must just be staggering. At that point they will literally believe anything. I mean anything. Tell them that moon-men hitched a ride to earth on a comet and now live in the tunnels of new york city controlling the stock markets around the globe so the democrats can fund hobo blood-letting satanic rituals to ensure they always get elected. I would bet it would be a matter of days before you saw moon-men t-shirts at these rallies. Insane.
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Yep
 
fishonjazz said:
The whole Qanon premise is so stupid. Its very hard to comprehend than anyone would find any truth in it. Donald Freaking Trump is going to eradicate a deep state cabal of pedophiles lol.
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This is literally the image of Trump many of his supporters have.

61l+RyqDMHL.jpg
 
Gameface said:
This is literally the image of Trump many of his supporters have.

61l+RyqDMHL.jpg
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A hybrid M-60 machine gun / Soviet-style RPG-7 rocket launcher with fore and aft triggers. I see it also comes equipped with the bipod on the left side only (unipod?). That is quite a weapon he's got there. It will make America great again for sure!

Back here in reality, did you see that DeSantis has a 23-point lead over Trump in the latest USA Today/Suffolk University poll? DeSantis is also leading Biden by 7 points.

www.newsweek.com

Trump 2024 support tanks as Ron DeSantis leads by 23 points—poll

A new poll has also found that the Florida governor leads President Joe Biden in a hypothetical 2024 match up.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

I fully expect the DNC to start campaigning for Trump in the primary as they did with the MAGA candidates in this past election.
 
LogGrad98 said:
It really is one of the most out there conspiracies I have ever seen. Just makes no sense at all. The level of delusion people must be living under to accept that kind of ******** must just be staggering. At that point they will literally believe anything. I mean anything. Tell them that moon-men hitched a ride to earth on a comet and now live in the tunnels of new york city controlling the stock markets around the globe so the democrats can fund hobo blood-letting satanic rituals to ensure they always get elected. I would bet it would be a matter of days before you saw moon-men t-shirts at these rallies. Insane.
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113C3951-412E-44E5-BCC7-00B54BCF3AD4.jpeg
 
DeSantis is bad news. But if he is unable to tone it down, and approaches America with the same anger as usual, which he thinks conveys strength, but really is just trying to out bully Trump, pump up his tough guy “own the libs at all costs” persona, I doubt that’s a winning strategy for the presidency. At least not a unifying message. He’s more divisive than Trump, IMO.


View: https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1602882963707920384


View: https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1602892716731518976


www.msnbc.com

By every measure, Ron DeSantis’ newest Covid gambit is a tragedy

If Covid-19 were capable of feeling emotion, it’d likely be delighted by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' latest public health moves.
www.msnbc.com www.msnbc.com

To get votes:
“DeSantis’ far-right line on Covid — including the appointment of a radical state surgeon general who’s been derided as a “Covid crank,” his condemnations of Dr. Anthony Fauci, his campaigns against educators and businesses, his rejection of CDC recommendations for protecting children, etc. — has made him a hero to much of the right. Indeed, while Donald Trump is afraid to even use the word “vaccine” around his own followers, Florida’s far-right governor has positioned himself well to the right of the former president.
The public health toll will be indefensible, but DeSantis’ national ambitions are likely to get a boost — and that’s a tradeoff the Republican is pleased to embrace.”
 
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Red said:
DeSantis is bad news. But if he is unable to tone it down, and approaches America with the same anger as usual, which he thinks conveys strength, but really is just trying to out bully Trump, pump up his tough guy “own the libs at all costs” persona, I doubt that’s a winning strategy for the presidency. At least not a unifying message. He’s more divisive than Trump, IMO.


View: https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1602882963707920384


View: https://twitter.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1602892716731518976


www.msnbc.com

By every measure, Ron DeSantis’ newest Covid gambit is a tragedy

If Covid-19 were capable of feeling emotion, it’d likely be delighted by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis' latest public health moves.
www.msnbc.com www.msnbc.com

To get votes:
“DeSantis’ far-right line on Covid — including the appointment of a radical state surgeon general who’s been derided as a “Covid crank,” his condemnations of Dr. Anthony Fauci, his campaigns against educators and businesses, his rejection of CDC recommendations for protecting children, etc. — has made him a hero to much of the right. Indeed, while Donald Trump is afraid to even use the word “vaccine” around his own followers, Florida’s far-right governor has positioned himself well to the right of the former president.
The public health toll will be indefensible, but DeSantis’ national ambitions are likely to get a boost — and that’s a tradeoff the Republican is pleased to embrace.”
Click to expand...

This is why RW authoritarianism (Trumpism) goes way beyond Trump. He could croak today and nothing about the trajectory that the GOP is on would change. All its major leaders are doing their best Trump impressions. From MTG to DeSantis. All of the 24 hopefuls attempt to imitate Trump. DeSantis especially, who even imitates his hand motions and speech mannerisms.

Even if Trump died today, You still would have billionaires who want deregulation and tax cuts funding the party. You’d still have Adrian Vermeule and the Federalist Society creating writing fascist ideas and legislating regressive policy via the courts. (See article linked). You’d still have the extensive RW propaganda apparatus of Fox News, am radio, Facebook, and countless podcasts. And most importantly, you’d still have millions of rage and conspiracy addicts who have created a fact free alt reality for themselves. They crave a fight against mainstream culture and ideas to give their lives meaning. If it’s not immigrants and misogyny, it’s NATO and the UN. If it’s not NATO and the UN, it’s masks and vaccines. If it’s not masks and vaccines, it’s trans athletes and CRT. If it’s not trans athletes and CRT, it’s gays and books. These narcissists will vote for the leader that feeds their craving for grievance. If Trump can hurt the right people? Great! If he can’t, then maybe DeSantis will?

As usual, Tom Nichols nails it

View: https://twitter.com/radiofreetom/status/1541225029471555595?s=46&t=M9SgEf0SyKpvZUSf4JL-FA


View: https://twitter.com/radiofreetom/status/1541225516128141312?s=46&t=M9SgEf0SyKpvZUSf4JL-FA


View: https://twitter.com/radiofreetom/status/1541225977476415495?s=46&t=M9SgEf0SyKpvZUSf4JL-FA
 
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I was not making a joke, I was expressing a long-running frustration that I have expressed before, and I reaffirmed my position. You bring valuable content. You also bring harsh and quick judgements. Neither disguises the other.
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This quote seems different than this one:
You say that about all conservatives. Of course you're occasionally correct.
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Two of three of which I don’t believe I’ve described as trolls before:
When they care to chime in, I enjoy reading:
RandyForRubio
JazzSpazz
Bucknutz (who says he is not conservative, but seems right-leaning to me)
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While I’ll freely admit that I’m as vulnerable as anyone to making rash decisions, I do hope that the conservatives on here do conduct some introspection periodically rather than doing their typical regurgitation of lame Fox News talking pts that leads to my blocking as trolls. One needs to only enter one of our many threads about Jan 6, Mueller, Covid, Trans athletes, and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and their responses are easily predictable.

Perhaps it isn’t always my rash judgements or the changing culture that’s changing but the media they consume, algorithms they fix with social media, leaders they support, and the bad faith arguments they present for attention? Up until 5 mins ago, conservatives supposedly believed in strong foreign policy (especially against Russia), fiscal responsibility, and stressed the importance of morals and character from their leaders. I remember conservatives on here arguing against Obamacare (socialism!). then suddenly they were for farm handouts for Trump’s trade war. If the liberal order is the problem and nationalism is the answer… If Reagan would be labeled a RINO by today’s GOP, then *perhaps* the problem lies in the mirror?

I don’t believe they’re crazy conspiracies, absurd rationalizations for Trump’s crimes, and nonstop tribalism should be validated. I just don’t have time to argue with bad faith posters. I know you do/have a higher tolerance for argument and more power to you. But I do not. I don’t think feeding trolls like Al or Jazzy help and in fact prolong their bad faith behavior. I certainly don’t miss any nonsense posted by trolls like Al or Jazzyfresh. There’s a difference between labeling those I disagree with as trolls and those who act like trolls as trolls, a fact I hope you recognize. I’m pretty confident that the majority of the time, I’m pretty accurate regarding at detecting the trolls and blocking.
 
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Red said:
www.occrp.org

Hundreds of Members of Extremist Group Oath Keepers Worked for U.S. Department of Homeland Security, Leaked Roster Shows - OCCRP

Current and former Secret Service, border control, customs, and Coast Guard employees all signed up as members of the right-wing militant group between 2009 and 2015, leaked data shows.
www.occrp.org www.occrp.org
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There is a a growing and ever dangerous RW movement in our country that receives a fraction of the attention that stupid stories about “the cancel culture left” Joshua Katz, Jordan Peterson, and kitty litter get. The power of Fox News and the FB algorithm are the main drivers of News in this country. And it’s dangerous because this movement has the potential to destroy the rights and freedoms we currently enjoy. This movement is exploiting the liberal democracy that allows it to grow.

Those who think DeSantis won’t continue to grow this movement need to have their heads examined.
 
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