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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

The Jazz Wonderbra said:
I comp Vando with Draymond Green lite. He is a versatile 1 - 5 defender whose shot isn't respected. He plays a bit of the enforcer (again lite) and does all of the little things that help a team win.

When left completely open he makes just enough threes to stay on the court but not enough to slack off of other shooters on the team.

I would bet on the Vandalorian way before betting on Collins. I like Collins more than most.
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I was going to give you a like but then you said you like Collins more than most. No intelligent basketball fan would like him. I’ve lost all respect for you as a fan and a person and idiot.
Eddie Zero said:
if he can develop a highly reliable corner 3 he can overtake the Finney Smith streaky 3 archetype
he is nothing close to Dre as a playmaker yet.
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He already has imo.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Great minds think alike. I posted this seconds after you. The enforcer draymond lite needs to grow.
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For ***** and giggles here is a stat comparison for draymond and vando per 36. (for the record draymond averages 31 minutes per game and vando 25)

Green: 9.5 points on 54% from the field and 29% from three (7 shots per game)
Vando: 12.7 points on 61% from the field and 41% from three (9 shots per game)

Green: 7.1 rebounds (0.8 offensive)
Vando: 11.9 rebounds (3.7 offensive)

Green: 0.9 steals
Vando: 1.8 steals

Green: 0.9 blocks
Vando: 0.4 blocks

Green: 3.0 turnovers
Vando: 2.2 Turnovers

Green: 1.8 free throw attempts per game
Vando: 2.2 free throw attempts per game

Green: 7.8 assists (this is where draymond shines)
Vando: 4.1 assists (however, I was pretty happy to see these assists numbers from vando. Closer than I expected)

Green: 6 foot 6 inches 230 pounds
Vando: 6 foot 9 inches 214 pounds (I figure vando will add some weight)

Green: almost 32 years old
Vando: 23 years old

Green: 25.8 million this year and 27.5 million next year
Vando: 4.3 million this year and 4.6 million next year

So in summary Vando is a more efficient scorer from inside and outside on higher volume, Vando is a significantly better rebounder (especially offensively), Vando gets more steals and commits less turnovers and gets to the line more. Vando is much younger and WAY cheaper. Green is the much better playmaker though not by as much as I thought and he does happen to have possibly the best offensive player of all time to pass the ball to. These stats dont reflect defense very well so I would bet that draymond would be the better defender.

All in all I was very surprised by how well vando did in the comparison. I wasn't expecting it to be so close and for vando to be better at so many things. When you consider salary and age there is no way in hell I would rather have Green than Vando. Give me Vando all day every day. Plus Green is a douchebag and Vando isn't. Im glad I did this comparison. I loved vando already but this just makes me love him more. He is so versatile and does so much that doesn't get much attention. He is a keeper.
 
Eddie Zero said:
if he can develop a highly reliable corner 3 he can overtake the Finney Smith streaky 3 archetype
he is nothing close to Dre as a playmaker yet.
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He is closer to draymond as a playmaker than I thought though. 7.8 assists vs 4.1 assists. Still a huge advantage to draymond but he is passing the ball to steph curry a lot so if you gave draymond mike conley and gave vando steph then I would think draymond would lose an assist or 2 per game and vando would gain an assist or 2 and things would be much closer.
 
fishonjazz said:
He is closer to draymond as a playmaker than I thought though. 7.8 assists vs 4.1 assists. Still a huge advantage to draymond but he is passing the ball to steph curry a lot so if you gave draymond mike conley and gave vando steph then I would think draymond would lose an assist or 2 per game and vando would gain an assist or 2 and things would be much closer.
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Its not the same at all. Vando is fine as a playmaker... Dray is next level BBIQ guy on both sides of the floor. I hate the guy with a passion... but he's so far above Vando's level its not funny. Defensively he is way better... even though Vando has a rebound and steal advantage. Its just not close.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Its not the same at all. Vando is fine as a playmaker... Dray is next level BBIQ guy on both sides of the floor. I hate the guy with a passion... but he's so far above Vando's level its not funny. Defensively he is way better... even though Vando has a rebound and steal advantage. Its just not close.
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Im fine with you saying dray has a significant playmaking advantage (though you have to admit that having Steph freaking curry helps in that) and BBIQ advantage. And defense too. Note that in the post you quoted I specifically used the word "huge" in describing draymonds playmaking advantage. What do you think happens to Draymonds assist numbers and vandos if you swap conley for steph?

Vando has a significant rebounding advantage and significant scoring advantage on higher volume and much better efficiency though. Vando also has a significant potential/young age advantage and an extremely huge salary advantage. Also a significant energy advantage and a HUGE non douchebag advantage.

Give me Vando all day erry day.
 
Tom349 said:
PJ is fools gold. Has the odd game where he can't miss but has a lot more games where he can't buy a bucket.
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He's had a bad year but he was just invisible out there on both ends. He played great defense last year. Clifford openly criticized his team last night so maybe it was exceptionally bad but man.... Not sure I want to pay a guy that checks out like that... let alone give something up to trade for him. I think he could be invigorated. The good thing on John Collins is that even though he has been marginalized he has played good defense and continued trying. I kind of like that player type but also have a hard time seeing how it fits.
 
Also Vando never cold cocked a teammate in practice. I bet his teammates like him better than Draymonds teammates like his punk ***.
 
fishonjazz said:
Im fine with you saying dray has a significant playmaking advantage (though you have to admit that having Steph freaking curry helps in that) and BBIQ advantage. And defense too.

Vando has a significant rebounding advantage and significant scoring advantage on higher volume and much better efficiency though. Vando also has a significant potential/young age advantage and an extremely huge salary advantage. Also a significant energy advantage and a HUGE non douchebag advantage.

Give me Vando all day erry day.
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But sometimes you need a douche bag... if he is on your team he is your douche bag. I would rather not have guys knocking teammates out doe.

I don't want Dray... I will take Vando too... I think Green's salary and fit wouldn't be as amazing if he isn't playing with Steph and Klay. He would work here but not on the same timeline.

I think Vando needs to be more effective on ball and he can be a super hyper PJ Tucker. As it stands I think he is a third big and honestly he's in a solid spot/role right now. He has had other good games but the game he had against NO was the first one that really made me think there might be a touch more to him.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
But sometimes you need a douche bag... if he is on your team he is your douche bag. I would rather not have guys knocking teammates out doe.

I don't want Dray... I will take Vando too... I think Green's salary and fit wouldn't be as amazing if he isn't playing with Steph and Klay. He would work here but not on the same timeline.

I think Vando needs to be more effective on ball and he can be a super hyper PJ Tucker. As it stands I think he is a third big and honestly he's in a solid spot/role right now. He has had other good games but the game he had against NO was the first one that really made me think there might be a touch more to him.
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Agreed.
 
I'm not sure why we're comparing Vando to Green, I probably missed how that came to be.

The biggest problem with Vando currently is that he's not a good defender. It feels like he has the tools to be a good defender though, so hopefully that changes (he's been good the last two games).

The second biggest problem with Vando is that Hardy won't play him and Kessler together. If you want Kessler to get more minutes (I'm actually ok with Kessler's minutes for now), then you need to find a new home for Vando, or find a new coach.

I wouldn't rush in to anything yet. I think everything will get more clear as we move forward.
 
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