Which direction do you want the team to go the rest of the season?

[sip]

ok bud.

Yes, I will die on the KO has been very good this year and helps us win games hill. Please take your stupid small sample size BS you are pulling and shove it up your ***.

KO was great for the first couple weeks of the year. After that it was a steady decline.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Being ahead of schedule is not always a good thing when building for the future. It may force us to miss out on the most important acquisition phase and completely cap our upside. Also there is no guarantee that Minny pick is in the lottery at this point.

Being ahead of schedule with Mitchell is one of the biggest reasons are team stalled out so quickly. If we had a year or two of missing the playoffs with MItchell, we'd probably be much better set up.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Being ahead of schedule is not always a good thing when building for the future. It may force us to miss out on the most important acquisition phase and completely cap our upside. Also there is no guarantee that Minny pick is in the lottery at this point.

What do you mean by most important acquisition phase?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

KO was great for the first couple weeks of the year. After that it was a steady decline.

Noted, the 4/5 averaging 12/5/3 on 41% 3pt shooting actually sucks and hurts the team.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Being ahead of schedule with Mitchell is one of the biggest reasons are team stalled out so quickly. If we had a year or two of missing the playoffs with MItchell, we'd probably be much better set up.

This is just weird thinking. How we’re we going to be bad with both Gobert and Mitchell?

That team also didn’t have the most future 1sts in the league (14) either.

 

[Elizah Huge]

Noted, the 4/5 averaging 12/5/3 on 41% 3pt shooting actually sucks and hurts the team.

When he was starting over Kessler and playing terrible defense it hurt the team. Groundbreaking stuff I know.

 

[Korisfani]

I'm not 100% sure how valuable, "playoff experience" is? I personally still think getting a better contributor from the draft is more important. The reason I voted for don't care is that I'm just not sure our potential for wins/losses has that much of a range.

Yeah, I would pick getting a starting5 player over one playoff series, obviously. But as you said the difference is the potential of, let's say, picks 20 vs. 11.

A team needs playoff experience in some way. I doubt a team with a core with zero experience would make it to the Finals straight away their first time.

Some of that experience you can buy on the market with the currency you have (the picks). But the scenario right now is Markkanen and Kessler playing huge roles on that competing team and possibly some of the players yet to be drafted there as well. During at least the last 15 years the only team to make the Finals their first time is the Suns with Booker/Ayton/Bridges.

Markkanen has big-game experience with the national team, but it's not quite the same - the difference with the FIBA game is already quite big.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Didnt even bother reading after that statement. Jesus Christ.

I like Conley, he's obviously a great dude. And when he's played well, his ability to control the tempo and move the ball has been important. But there's no getting around the fact that his perimeter D is nonexistent at this point. He plays a position where you have to be really quick to stay with guys, and Mike just doesn't have it anymore at 35. Plus he's small, which is a bigger disadvantage than ever these days, with teams using bone crushing screens at the point of attack on almost every possession to create mismatches.

We only have subpar defenders in our regular guard rotation, which is the main reason our overall D has been among the worst in the league lately. If we had a great defender to pair up with Conley, the situation would be different... but we don't.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

This is just weird thinking. How we’re we going to be bad with both Gobert and Mitchell?

That team also didn’t have the most future 1sts in the league (14) either.

What's weird? I said if. No one thought Mitchell was going to average 20 ppg out the gate, so I really dont get whats weird about thinking the Jazz could have sucked. It's what we all thought would happen after it was clear Hood was not good enough to step up. We were ahead of schedule, it was fun in the moment, but ultimately it was not good for the team.

And yeah, Utah right is clearly in a better long-term position than we were the rookie Mitchell year, but we still may have huge issues acquiring another highly talented rookie in the next 2 years that is more in-line with the Markkanen timeline.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I like Conley, he's obviously a great dude. And when he's played well, his ability to control the tempo and move the ball has been important. But there's no getting around the fact that his perimeter D is nonexistent at this point. He plays a position where you have to be really quick to stay with guys, and Mike just doesn't have it anymore at 35. Plus he's small, which is a bigger disadvantage than ever these days, with teams using bone crusing screens at the point of attack to find mismatches.

We only have subpar defenders in our regular guard rotation, which is the main reason our overall D has been among the worst in the league lately. If we had a great defender to pair up with Conley, the situation would be different... but we don't.

Yea, not saying Conely is perfect, but he's always a positive for the team. Without him the team is worse. There's no ifs and or buts about it. I dont care what stats you show me, I got eyes.

 

[Korisfani]

Grady DIck, Jarace Walker, Cason Wallace, Jett Howard, Cam Whitmore, Ausuar Thompson, Keyonte George, Anthony Black, GG Jackson.

These guys could all be available in that 8-14 range and if you are making the playoffs you are going to miss out on them. They could be the difference between you being a real contender 3-4 years down the line and not being a real contender.

Or they might be out of the league in 3-4 years time.

Or Markkanen could've signed elsewhere, wanting to compete, not play with bums.

If the value of a 8-14 pick is "difference between a contender or not", there's not a single team in the league willing to trade those picks. Ever.

 

[LogGrad98]

Im gonna start by saying i dont care what they do. This is the season of win win #itsALLgood.
We have really good really young really cheap players, tons of picks, a great rookie head coach and the best GM in the league. Every scenario is the right scenario.

I do believe that there is an ideal scenario that is unlikely but also possible. That scenario is trading the vets for players and picks that make our amazing future even more amazing AND not losing any more games due to trading them. Thats the ideal scenario imo. Get better for the future while not getting worse in the present.

Our young guys(and coach) just might be good enough to make that scenario a reality.

But as i said, i dont really care what the jazz front office chooses to do. They have been killing it on the rebuild and i trust that whatever they do from here on out will work out fantastically


Sent from my iPad using JazzFanz mobile app

This sums it up nicely.

I am also in the camp of we can do no wrong this season. I think we should put the best team we can on the floor, develop the young guys with that in mind, and let the chips fall where they may. We are seeing that this will lead to a lot of winning, which is fine by me. No way we can get bad enough to drop into top pick contention, so why not just make all the noise we can. It has been a damn fun season so far, way more fun than a blow-it-up rebuild has any business being. I love it!

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Or they might be out of the league in 3-4 years time.

Or Markkanen could've signed elsewhere, wanting to compete, not play with bums.

If the value of a 8-14 pick is "difference between a contender or not", there's not a single team in the league willing to trade those picks. Ever.

Yes, most teams are extremely hesitant to trade those picks unless they want to acquire win now help. Thanks for proving my point.

 

[Korisfani]

Yes, most teams are extremely hesitant to trade those picks unless they want to acquire win now help. Thanks for proving my point.

I think instead of "extremely hesitant" you mean "extremely willing". Last year 4/7 picks in that range didn't belong to their original owner. Longer term, close to half of those picks are traded.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I think instead of "extremely hesitant" you mean "extremely willing". Last year 4/7 picks in that range didn't belong to their original owner. Longer term, close to half of those picks are traded.

So you cherry picked one year and arent even going to say the context of those trades?

Teams arent throwing these picks away willingly. There's a reason why teams try to lotto protect their trades.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

And yeah, Utah right is clearly in a better long-term position than we were the rookie Mitchell year, but we still may have huge issues acquiring another highly talented rookie in the next 2 years that is more in-line with the Markkanen timeline.

It's overwhelmingly unlikely that any rookie drafted outside the top 5 would develop fast enough anyway to make a huge impact within the next 2 to 3 years. That can't be why you tank.

The basic problem for the tankers is this: if we intentionally bottom out, Markkanen is immediately on the wrong timeline. He'll be 26 in May, not 22. If you go all scorched earth on your team, you're not bouncing back in a year or two like nothing happened. You get ready for 4 to 5 years of losing.

That's why a full tank was always an impossibility ever since Lauri emerged as a probable All Star and we turned out to be better than anyone thought. It should be full throttle from now on. Luckily, we still have lots of ways to improve the team.

(Hint: none of them involves trading for John Collins.)

 

[Korisfani]

So you cherry picked one year and arent even going to say the context of those trades?

Teams arent throwing these picks away willingly. There's a reason why teams try to lotto protect their trades.

No I didn't. As I said, over the long term pretty much half of those picks are traded. Some years might be 2/7, others it's been 5/7. On average: half.

Is there a difference in getting a contributor 11 vs. 20? Of course. But it's not very big. The "sure things", Scoots and Wembys, are long gone any way.

You might hit on a Don, Bam, SGA in that mid-range. Probably not. And you might miss on a top4 pick.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

It's overwhelmingly unlikely that any rookie drafted outside the top 5 would develop fast enough anyway to make a huge impact within the next 2 to 3 years. That can't be why you tank.

Bruh... really... you seen Ty Haliburton or SGA... What about Desmond Bane, Walker Kessler, Franz Wagner, Tyrese Maxey, Tyler Herro... also guys like Trey Murphy and Herb Jones would like a word.

It can happen... it isn't likely but its not some extreme outlier... with as many picks as we have and the ability we will have to move up in drafts we should be able to get the job done.

 

[fishonjazz]

ok bud.

Yes, I will die on the KO has been very good this year and helps us win games hill. Please take your stupid small sample size BS you are pulling and shove it up your ***.

You said we would miss him. We haven't thats all. Again, its ok to say "I was wrong about how much we would miss KO. We have actually been very good without him"
Not that big of a deal.

 

[hgb]

No I didn't. As I said, over the long term pretty much half of those picks are traded. Some years might be 2/7, others it's been 5/7. On average: half.

Is there a difference in getting a contributor 11 vs. 20? Of course. But it's not very big. The "sure things", Scoots and Wembys, are long gone any way.

You might hit on a Don, Bam, SGA in that mid-range. Probably not. And you might miss on a top4 pick.

Most of those trades seem to be made before the draft, though, when teams didn't know where they would pick. Of the lottery picks traded on draft day or just after, quite a few of them were for other lottery picks (De'Andre Hunter for Jaxson Hayes and NAW in 2019, for example). Ochai was 14th in '22.