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Game Thread Mar 20, 2023 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Kings

Added to Calendar: 03-20-23

I know one particular poster who will flame me for this post but.......

If I were GM of the jazz and minnesota called up and asked if I would take Gobert for Kessler I would lmao.
If they magically made his salary the same as kessler salary I still say no.
If they magically made his salary the same as kessler and his age the same as kessler I still say no.

Kessler is averaging more blocks per 36 this season than gobert averaged per 36 in any season of his career (his most was also his rookie year)
Kessler is also averaging less turnovers per 36 this season than gobert averaged per 36 in any season of his career.
Kessler has a higher field goal percentage this season than gobert in any season of his career.

Fouls, rebounds, assists, steals, etc are all pretty close across the board.

I know Rudy Goberts ceiling. And it was pretty fantastic. Going to be fun to see what kesslers ceiling looks like
 
fishonjazz said:
I know one particular poster who will flame me for this post but.......

If I were GM of the jazz and minnesota called up and asked if I would take Gobert for Kessler I would lmao.
If they magically made his salary the same as kessler salary I still say no.
If they magically made his salary the same as kessler and his age the same as kessler I still say no.

Kessler is averaging more blocks per 36 this season than gobert averaged per 36 in any season of his career (his most was also his rookie year)
Kessler is also averaging less turnovers per 36 this season than gobert averaged per 36 in any season of his career.
Kessler has a higher field goal percentage this season than gobert in any season of his career.

Fouls, rebounds, assists, steals, etc are all pretty close across the board.

I know Rudy Goberts ceiling. And it was pretty fantastic. Going to be fun to see what kesslers ceiling looks like
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Yeah, I will flame. Gobert is still better.
 
fishonjazz said:
Look. We are going to play minnesota in the play in tournament and knock them out of the playoffs. It is destined.
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Wow! We sure have a dysfunctional relationship with those guys. One minute we’re stealing them blind on the Gobert deal, the next minute we’re gifting them a legendary point guard, a nice scoring combo guard and three seconds. Yep, you right, time to show em who’s boss again!
 
framer said:
It is amazing to me how many teams desperately need a Walker Kessler and he drops to 22.
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But but but he can't shoot, he is obsolete in today's NBA...completely USELESS. USELESS I tell you...


USELESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Really? Just defensively or overall? Kessler shows more promise with a jump shot and has better hands imo. Gobert kinda seemed always at his ceiling the last half decade and never raised it any higher. Actually surprised by this take.
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Both sides.

Could be wrong if Kessler really develops offensively with post moves/jumper, but his FT shooting doesn't give me great hope for the kind of leap that would be necessary to make him a better offensive player than peak Gobert.


When adjusting for contracts, of course take WK, but at the same price Gobert is much better. Gobert would be insane on this team.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Really? Just defensively or overall? Kessler shows more promise with a jump shot and has better hands imo. Gobert kinda seemed always at his ceiling the last half decade and never raised it any higher. Actually surprised by this take.
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His floor, right now, is already close to Gobert ceiling lol. Its one thing to think he wont be as good as gobert. Its kind of crazy to say he wont be anywhere near as good as gobert when he already is at least near as good.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
In not super pressed a out missing out on a top pick because I don't think the draft will actually be that important for this team anymore. Don't think we have to get another star via draft. We can do it through a trade and hopefully make a nice signing this off-season

Obviously I know we have to land some hits, just saying it doesn't have to be a huge hit
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This. Add, say, Jalen Brown and shore up some of the weaker points of the roster and we are in the hunt. And we have the resources to do just that. This is no pipe dream, this is happening. Feels like a fairy tale. Like the first time I ever kissed a girl and she didn't wake up!


And on top of all that, we still might strike gold with the Wolve's pick this year. This is insane! Is this one of the best rebuilds ever, at least for early returns? I would have to think so. This will at least cement DA as the basketball genius of all bball geniuses.
 
Peak Gobert offensively turned it over more than Kessler and shot a worse field goal percentage. Gobert averaged more points no doubt as he was featured much more and had more touches/shots than kessler.
Now if Kessler is featured more on offense then I would expect his turnovers to increase and field goal percentage to decrease....... but I would also expect his points to go up. Im just not seeing a big difference anywhere when I look at the stats. Kessler is also an advanced stats darling like gobert was too. Whenever anyone posts one of those charts with the players pictures on it kessler is always all by himself isolated in the best corner of the chart. Just like gobert always was.
 
Zombie said:
There's no reason to be salty over a great game like this. Makes me wonder if some people even enjoy watching their team play basketball.
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Give them a break, this is a weird year. It takes a special kind of stupid to enjoy both the wins and the losses. Luckily for me, I am as stupid as they come. Bring it all on!!
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Both sides.

Could be wrong if Kessler really develops offensively with post moves/jumper, but his FT shooting doesn't give me great hope for the kind of leap that would be necessary to make him a better offensive player than peak Gobert.


When adjusting for contracts, of course take WK, but at the same price Gobert is much better. Gobert would be insane on this team.
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Huh. I don't want to diminish or forget how great Gobert was for us. But I also never remember being very impressed offensively, and often it was just plain ugly. I haven't been actually watching the games much this year (because the broadcast deal is ***) so can't speak much on Kessler other than highlights. But he's much more impressive than Gobert at either end if you just compare rookie years, which is a simplification I know. I can also see the argument for Kessler already being near as good as he is going to get. No clue if that is true, but he's already damn good so maybe that is the case.

Gobert was more fluid, longer wingspan could cover more ground, etc. But Kessler has that size that seems like it can really bother big men down low in a way Gobert didn't. If we played Denver in the 1/8 matchup I'd be really interested to see if Kessler could do anything to bother Jokic.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Wtf is this? Please go look at the history of the #4 pick and the #15 pick and tell me how many times 15 was better than 4… it’s not a crapshoot after 4 and no one who has actually looked at this draft and has multiple brain cells thinks that.
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Just for fun here are all the #4 and #15s from 2000 to 2020, 21 and 22 are too soon to tell really...

2000 - Marcus Fizer vs Jason Collier
2001 - Eddy Curry vs Steven Hunter
2002 - Drew Gooden vs Bostjan Nachbar
2003 - Chris Bosch vs Reece Gaines
2004 - Shaun Livingston vs Al Jefferson
2005 - Chris Paul vs Antoine Wright
2006 - Tyrus Thomas vs Cedric Simmons
2007 - Mike Conley vs Rodney Stuckey
2008 - Russell Westbrook vs Robin Lopez
2009 - Tyreke Evans vs Austin Daye
2010 - Wesley Johnson vs Larry Sanders
2011 - Tristan Thompson vs Kawhi Leonard
2012 - Dion Waiters vs Maurice Harkless
2013 - Cody Zeller vs Giannis Antetokoumpo
2014 - Aaron Gordon vs Adreian Payne
2015 - Kristapz Porzingas vs Kelly Oubre
2016 - Dragan Bender vs Juancho Hernangomez
2017 - Josh Jackson vs Justin Jackson
2018 - Jaren Jackson vs Troy Brown
2019 - D'Andre Hunter vs Sekou Doumbouya
2020 - Patrick Williams vs Cole Anthony

By my reckoning, 4 absolutely destroyed 15 in 5 or maybe 6 of these years. 15 destroyed 4 in 3, maybe 4 years on a stretch. The rest were roughly even, imo.

So out of 21 years, 4 was the better choice 6/21 or about 30% of the time. 15 was the better choice 4/21 or about 20% of the time and the other half of the time it was fairly a crap shoot with busts and ok players coming in both positions.

Interesting. Of course a lot of this depends on your analysis of player impact and for me, just now, I did it on my gut, no stats. So take that for what it's worth.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Just for fun here are all the #4 and #15s from 2000 to 2020, 21 and 22 are too soon to tell really...

2000 - Marcus Fizer vs Jason Collier
2001 - Eddy Curry vs Steven Hunter
2002 - Drew Gooden vs Bostjan Nachbar
2003 - Chris Bosch vs Reece Gaines
2004 - Shaun Livingston vs Al Jefferson
2005 - Chris Paul vs Antoine Wright
2006 - Tyrus Thomas vs Cedric Simmons
2007 - Mike Conley vs Rodney Stuckey
2008 - Russell Westbrook vs Robin Lopez
2009 - Tyreke Evans vs Austin Daye
2010 - Wesley Johnson vs Larry Sanders
2011 - Tristan Thompson vs Kawhi Leonard
2012 - Dion Waiters vs Maurice Harkless
2013 - Cody Zeller vs Giannis Antetokoumpo
2014 - Aaron Gordon vs Adreian Payne
2015 - Kristapz Porzingas vs Kelly Oubre
2016 - Dragan Bender vs Juancho Hernangomez
2017 - Josh Jackson vs Justin Jackson
2018 - Jaren Jackson vs Troy Brown
2019 - D'Andre Hunter vs Sekou Doumbouya
2020 - Patrick Williams vs Cole Anthony

By my reckoning, 4 absolutely destroyed 15 in 5 or maybe 6 of these years. 15 destroyed 4 in 3, maybe 4 years on a stretch. The rest were roughly even, imo.

So out of 21 years, 4 was the better choice 6/21 or about 30% of the time. 15 was the better choice 4/21 or about 20% of the time and the other half of the time it was fairly a crap shoot with busts and ok players coming in both positions.

Interesting. Of course a lot of this depends on your analysis of player impact and for me, just now, I did it on my gut, no stats. So take that for what it's worth.
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Really good post. Im surprised that 4 didn't dominate 15.
 
Comparison of actual stats.. not per 36. Had to be fair to Rudy and use his 2nd year... otherwise it would have been a really unfair comp.

Player / yearMPGPPGRPGBPGFT%TS%TO
Rudy Gobert 2nd year (age 22)26.38.49.52.362.362.71.4
Walker Kessler 1st year (age 21)22.78.78.42.353.670.50.8

Only reason Rudy wins rebounds is the 15% more minutes he played per game. He also wins steals (0.7 vs 0.4) and assists (1.3 vs 0.9) which I left out since there is no argument either one is great in those two aspects.

Rookie year Rudy FT% was 49.2 and he hasnt improved really from that 2nd year 62.3% mark with his career average being 63.9. Kessler can very well improve, and I would guess he will.
 
fishonjazz said:
Really good post. Im surprised that 4 didn't dominate 15.
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I did some of these comps earlier and after #3 the odds of landing a star drop down dramatically and 4-15 is all really gray and a total crapshoot area.

Also for some reason #2 has been much much worse than #3 in last 25 years... lol.
 
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