Exhibition season

[sip]

Or why didnt they really tank either season. There is nothing shortsighted about being confused by a number of the FO moves.

I don't like the fact that they were so slow in making the tank moves the last 2 seasons but make no mistake looking to move vets was the correct move both years. The big mistake for me is that Clarkson needed to be the guy to go rather than Simone. We heard all this talk about how Clarkson had a lot of interest over these last 2 deadlines yet somehow we still have to watch him. Also it seems like their should have been a deal out there for Olynyk that could have netted us an early 2nd that didn't include Ochai. KO and Ochai for a late 1st is bad value in my opinion but moving KO was likely the difference between conveying and keeping our pick. He always seemed to play great in games that we were best off losing.

 

[UpArrow]

Or why didnt they really tank either season. There is nothing shortsighted about being confused by a number of the FO moves.

I think they are leary of imposing *too much* losing on Will Hardy as he forms his reputation in the league.

 

[sip]

I agree. This isn't a case where impatient or short sighted fans can't sit through a rebuild.

The problem is that this season in particular the front office doesn't really seem to have a plan.

If they wanted to win this year they should have more aggressively persued a vet point guard and another wing during the off season.

Conversely, if you're going to tank, then tank.

The front office did neither. They aren't hot. They aren't cold. They're luke warm.

It's like the front office is just driving around in circles waiting for an opportunity that may never come.

The front office indecision has put Will Hardy in a completely untenable position. Much of the motivation behind the trades was clearly to sink in the standing in order to retain the pick. When the front office clearly wants the team to lose, how can anyone expect Will to keep the team focused and playing hard? It sucks that the FO put the coach and players in this position.

No doubt the front office wanted to keep the pick but I also think there is some friction between Hardy and the front office about player development. The front office wants to see Key, Kessler, Hendricks and Brice so that they can actually evaluate these guys and how they may fit long term. What we see from those 4 is definitely going to have an impact on the type of player we prioritize in the draft and free agency.

 

[Park Bites]

This offseason should be indicative of what direction they want to go in. They have cap space and what they do with that cap space will be telling.

If Lauri is shipped out to OKC for say Giddy, Dieng, Wallace, and 3 FRP then they are in tank mode.

If they keep the roster and go hard for like OG, Quickley, or Bridges

If they make the star move and trade for Ingram or something

This summer should be very telling.

 

[outerspacefan]

I definitely hope they pick a direction next year. We need to build a real team around Lauri, or try and get a top pick in the 2025 draft.

Maybe ideally we keep Lauri and add a top pick from the 2025 draft, but I'm not sure how realistic that is.

Markkanen, the same as Clarkson, are not players that will play to their strenghts in isolation or reactive basketball. The former needs a structure because he's not a ballhandler or self creator really, and the later can create but needs to know where space will be or at least a space creation scheme around him. All these requirements have been completely wiped because the team has been kind of dismantled two seasons in a row.
I expect Lauri and Jordan to have a hell in front of them for the reminder of the season, which is not good for them as players, niether for their value or for the Jazz.

Are we seeing Danny's decline?

 

[gomretat]

I don't like the fact that they were so slow in making the tank moves the last 2 seasons but make no mistake looking to move vets was the correct move both years. The big mistake for me is that Clarkson needed to be the guy to go rather than Simone. We heard all this talk about how Clarkson had a lot of interest over these last 2 deadlines yet somehow we still have to watch him. Also it seems like their should have been a deal out there for Olynyk that could have netted us an early 2nd that didn't include Ochai. KO and Ochai for a late 1st is bad value in my opinion but moving KO was likely the difference between conveying and keeping our pick. He always seemed to play great in games that we were best off losing.

I have no idea what your threshold is for a "vet" but selling low and selling players that have good contracts and still plenty young to fit with adding assets with Lauri makes no sense whatsoever. And I have been saying on this board for several years that Ryan would not let Clarkson be traded. I think that has become obvious at this point. Ryan has a huge agenda about convincing the world about Utah and diversity and JC is his poster child. It works because JC likes it here. It was Donovan until Donny wanted out. My guess is that JC will move on this summer if Smith is convinced that Keyonte likes it in Utah. Smith and his wife took Keyonte to a BYU game so there is "progress" being made.

 

[gomretat]

Yeah... the whole "be opportunistic" thing works well when you find good opportunities. I say we need to be opportunistic but fill out the roster with some responsible medium term fits. If they are really "all in for a title" then a true tank starting last year would have been the best route. It may end up leading us to a Lauri trade and full tank at some point.

That said. Hit on a pick in a BIG way or make a couple decent FA/trade moves and we could see some real improvement.

Agreed. Danny has always been clear about being an opportunist and there never has been a plan that anyone can articulate. You might be right about moving Lauri but that would prove how ridiculous this entire process has been. You trade two all-stars, probably both HOF players and then you trade the best asset you got back in return? If you trade Lauri, what are you waiting for and where does it end?

 

[outerspacefan]

[...] If they are really "all in for a title" then a true tank starting last year would have been the best route. It may end up leading us to a Lauri trade and full tank at some point.
[...] Hit on a pick in a BIG way or make a couple decent FA/trade moves and we could see some real improvement.

You are right about the 3 things you stated here.
- Why on earth they did not try to get a chance at VW? There's no right answer to this thing.
- The wrong path (or no path) choice most probably will end up with Lauri being traded because I don't think the guy want to not play a postseason game until his 30s...
- DA ought to have a super big off-season, if not, this rebuild will most probably take lots of seasons...

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Agreed. Danny has always been clear about being an opportunist and there never has been a plan that anyone can articulate. You might be right about moving Lauri but that would prove how ridiculous this entire process has been. You trade two all-stars, probably both HOF players and then you trade the best asset you got back in return? If you trade Lauri, what are you waiting for and where does it end?

Right. Move Lauri and you are stacked with picks and likely waiting to strike gold in the lotto or hit big on a pick. But you spun your wheels for a couple years… so the fan base patience wears real thin. Likely would get a haul for Lauri. You’d be starting the tank from like step 2 or 3 but often it takes a few years to get the transcendent talent.

I think we extend Lauri this offseason but if he says no you have to move him and it’s full tank mode. I think we are close to the end of this stick in the lower middle purgatory but who knows. Indecision can often be confused with patience.

 

[outerspacefan]

I’ll stand by the jazz forrrrreeeeevvvvvverrrrrrr
This is step 1 of a rebuild. Tear it down.

Forever it's not the same for every dude... my forever is not that long....
In fact it's step 2, last season was step 1... and Danny's cookbook nowadays appears to have lots of steps...

 

[outerspacefan]

[...] Since the blockbusting Mitchel and Gobert trades, most of DA's trades have been totally one sided, and they haven't been to our favor.

Fact.

 

[outerspacefan]

[...] Likely would get a haul for Lauri [...]

He won't if the Jazz continue to kill his game by depleting the team around him.