Gun Control vs School Shootings in Terms of Child Deaths

[MTS]

most of these are suicides and they'll find another way to suicide.

I really disagree with this.

I think if suicide can be done through a spur of the moment, impulsive decision, it's a lot more likely to happen than if it has to be something more than a simple pull of a trigger.

From below: "Every study that has examined the issue to date has found that within the U.S., access to firearms is associated with increased suicide risk. Handgun ownership is associated with both elevated and enduring risk of suicide by firearm, with rates of suicide by any method being higher among handgun owners"

Means Matter | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Most efforts to prevent suicide focus on why people take their lives. But as we understand more about who attempts suicide

www.hsph.harvard.edu

 

[PJF]

If you say "mentally unstable people can go to walmart and buy a gun and also can get them illegally" then that gives more options that "mentally unstable people can only get their guns illegally"

Making it more difficult for people who shouldn't have guns to get them is the goal.

By your logic we should sell guns to 3 year olds since a 3 year old could aquire a gun by illegal means.

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I was going to put a laughing emoji and then I realized you are seriously asking if this was my point ^

 

[fishonjazz]

I was going to put a laughing emoji and then I realized you are seriously asking if this was my point ^

Your point was that the mentally ill can get guns anyways so it's pointless to make it harder for the mentally ill to get guns.
I agree, that kind of thinking deserves a laughing emoji.

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[Al-O-Meter]

I really disagree with this.

I think if suicide can be done through a spur of the moment, impulsive decision, it's a lot more likely to happen than if it has to be something more than a simple pull of a trigger.

From below: "Every study that has examined the issue to date has found that within the U.S., access to firearms is associated with increased suicide risk. Handgun ownership is associated with both elevated and enduring risk of suicide by firearm, with rates of suicide by any method being higher among handgun owners"

Means Matter | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health

Most efforts to prevent suicide focus on why people take their lives. But as we understand more about who attempts suicide

www.hsph.harvard.edu

I cannot disagree with what you are saying here. It is likely that some would indeed be saved if there were no firearm in the house, but sadly a portion would still go on to end their lives.

 

[LogGrad98]

I also think another thing that would help and doesn't have anything to do with guns or gun laws would be to change the culture.

Don't allow video games like call of duty and grand theft auto. Don't allow movies like John wick. Dont allow movies that glorify violence.

But we are talking about freedom of speech again so that's a no go.

Basically the freedoms we have (free speech, right to own guns) make it impossible to give us more freedom to not get killed by each other.

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I hear what you are saying. However the last I read about it, the causal link between violent games and movies to gun violence is pretty tenuous. For the millions that consume that stuff, a very very marginal fraction actually engage in violence of that nature, and most studies suggest that they would anyway, even without it. I think one thing we do not adequately address is mental health. It is a crisis in our country, and we do not adequately assess or treat mentally ill teens or children, and the same for adults. Somehow that needs to be part of the equation, even if it is a mandatory psych screening to even own a gun, something like that would help, imo. But we need to incorporate that into health and well-being check-ups by our regular doctors, where they refer folks for psych screening and insurance is required to cover it (like in literally every single other developed nation, another area we are so far behind it is stupidly comically tragic), and those records could be voluntarily used to assess fitness to own a firearm.

I have no problem with much higher bars for owning guns, period. Background checks need to include references and even school behavioral records maybe. But the free-for-all we have now is stupid.

I bought a HK45 a few years back, in California, supposedly some of the strongest gun laws in the country. I went into my local dealer/shooting range guy, he was a great guy. He knew me from mostly there at the range. He had what I wanted in stock. I filled out all the forms, he threw in a nice hard case for it, as it is freaking expensive, and a few other minor accessories. Gave me a few hundres bucks off the price, so better than I could even find on placed like Bud's Gun Shop online. Brand new, out of the box, never fired. I added 2 boxes of different ammo, etc. All the fixings you might say. And while I completed the mandatory background check for Cali, he wrapped up my gun, handed it to me, and said "if there are any issues, I will let you know". No waiting, no nothing, took it home that day. I was happy to wait, but he just handed it to me, so I took it. I imagine if he didn't know me he wouldn't risk his license, but when I asked him about it another time he said they are so backed up on background checks that for good customers he just back-dates it, or something like that, and submits it and he has never had a problem with it, with good customers.

Yeah, these things could be much tighter with no other cost than inconvenience. If we cannot suffer some minor inconvenience to help curtail child deaths, then we have a true sickness as a society, imo.

 

[LogGrad98]

My guess is that if you could bring the Framers of the constitution, specifically James Madison, from 1791 (my daughter is learning about the constitution in school right now. Its been fun for me to learn along with her) into the future and see the kind of guns/firepower available to almost every tom dick and harry in the US and show them the statistics of how many people die due to this right that we have then I think that the Framers would prefer to replace the 2nd amendment with something else.
They would probably be horrified with what they had done.

To talk to this more fully, this is exactly why they gave us an amendment process for the constitution. They knew the times would change, hell, look at the changes they had just enacted themselves, and that we would need different sections, additions and even subtractions, based on recent trends and changes in society and in the nation as a whole. Look at the civil rights amendments for example. None of the founders would imagine blacks would be freed, but we enshrined that in the constitution anyway. But then we act like anything that even remotely suggests adjusting the bill of rights to better protect the citizenry is blasphemy of a religious nature and people spontaneously clean their guns for emotional support at the very thought that they might have to *gasp* register the gun with the state, like we do already buying new guns in many states. Oh noes! As if not registering it would completely derail any attempt at forced confiscation and the state would just go away. To reiterate, no one's personal arsenal will allow them to stand against the might of the American military, so that argument is moot and stupid to boot. Mootpid? Stupoot? Just look at the branch Davidians and how that turned out. It is asinine to not at least engage in the conversations without just crawling under a desk and screaming "muh rights, muh guns!!" over and over.

 

[Mongoose]

We should also ban cars, buses, airplanes, motorcycles, bicycles, boats, knives, large bodies of water, and every form of recreation since they are unnecessary and they contribute to deaths as well.

 

[fishonjazz]

We should also ban cars, buses, airplanes, motorcycles, bicycles, boats, knives, large bodies of water, and every form of recreation since they are unnecessary and they contribute to deaths as well.

None of those things exist just to kill. You can do other things with guns like target practice and whatnot but the reason they were created is to kill.

Cant say the same about anything you listed. There is the difference.

 

[Sardines]

None of those things exist just to kill. You can do other things with guns like target practice and whatnot but the reason they were created is to kill.

Cant say the same about anything you listed. There is the difference.

Yeah, cars. You can kill with them, or you can practice killing with them.

I often make a huge print of an armed robber, like 9 feet by 9 feet, and then I put it in the road and I drive my car through it at high speed. When the time comes I WILL BE READY!

 

[LogGrad98]

None of those things exist just to kill. You can do other things with guns like target practice and whatnot but the reason they were created is to kill.

Cant say the same about anything you listed. There is the difference.

Tobacco is one of the few things created and used by humans that directly kills the user through regular recommended use as intended by the manufacturer. Almost nothing else we condone to be produced and sold as a product has this effect.

Guns have multiple uses so it does not fit in this category.

 

[SoberasHotRod]

I'm not going to pretend to have the answers on this subject, but one thing I would love to see more of a focus on is safe storage laws. The majority of states still do not have safe storage laws and this seems like something most reasonable people would be able to agree on.

Safe Storage of Firearms

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) is committed to protecting children from firearm-related injury and violence through safe storage of firearms guidance.

www.aap.org

 

[Mongoose]

You beta bitches are completely comfortable with the government or anyone besides you having every ounce of available power, is that right? You want someone else determining everything you are allowed to say, think, feel, and do?
You act like it’s a forgone conclusion the government could squash its own citizens if it wanted to and you’re okay with that. How do you become such beta cowards? How do you have no will to make decisions for yourself? Im not surprised because you all don’t seem to think for yourselves about anything else, but my goodness it’s cowardly and pathetic to see you all so eager to give away every right the constitution and bill of rights offers for citizens that have the desire and god given right to be free. You can go be beta bitch cowards in Canada or any other country on this planet if you don’t want free neighbors with rights.