Game Thread Jan 17, 2025 06:00PM MT: Utah Jazz @ New Orleans Pelicans

[HermanG]

Need to get rid of the lottery as it is. It's so pathetic what it makes these teams to do, a total disgrace for the spirit of competition.

The lottery isnt the issue. If draft was reverse standings like in the NFL, this would get much much uglier.

I think the problem this year is there are too many really bad teams. Wizards stand alone beneath everyone but there are 4 teams at 9 or 10 wins right now and Nets are aggressively dismantling their roster to join that pack and are starting to look like a team that may win less than a handful of games the rest of this season.

I dont think many GM's care about "pick ceilings" the way some of the hardcore tankers do... but with this many teams close to each other 1 or 2 wins may be the difference between top 3 odds and 6th (or even 7th, if Portland also joins the party). 3rd worst gets 14% and 7th gets 7.5% so you nearly halve your chances there.

 

[fishonjazz]

The lottery isnt the issue. If draft was reverse standings like in the NFL, this would get much much uglier.

I think the problem this year is there are too many really bad teams. Wizards stand alone beneath everyone but there are 4 teams at 9 or 10 wins right now and Nets are aggressively dismantling their roster to join that pack and are starting to look like a team that may win less than a handful of games the rest of this season.

I dont think many GM's care about "pick ceilings" the way some of the hardcore tankers do... but with this many teams close to each other 1 or 2 wins may be the difference between top 3 odds and 6th (or even 7th, if Portland also joins the party). 3rd worst gets 14% and 7th gets 7.5% so you nearly halve your chances there.

I took the post to mean get rid of the lottery in favor of something that doesn't reward losing. Like just a totally random system where the cavs could get the number 1 pick and wizards could get the last pick.
Not sure I like that but it would eliminate tanking for sure.

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[fishonjazz]

I think they were pushing the limits with Sexton making him rest a single game

Hardy was probably close to being murdered

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[HermanG]

I took the post to mean get rid of the lottery in favor of something that doesn't reward losing. Like just a totally random system where the cavs could get the number 1 pick and wizards could get the last pick.
Not sure I like that but it would eliminate tanking for sure.

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Yeah and my response meant that this year the bottom is so packed the problem is emphasized. I dont think its about the maximum odds as much as its about not falling from 3rd to 7th due to few meaningless wins. Usually I feel like the bottom 3-4 are at their own level of bad, but this year that isnt the case.

So in a normal year the current flat lottery wouldnt cause this much tanking... but this year there will be 1-2 bad teams drafting way later than they should based on their roster.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I took the post to mean get rid of the lottery in favor of something that doesn't reward losing. Like just a totally random system where the cavs could get the number 1 pick and wizards could get the last pick.
Not sure I like that but it would eliminate tanking for sure.

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The answer is to give things for winning, not take away the safety net of losing.

 

[HermanG]

Btw only now did I notice that Svi got a DNP-CD in this game despite us going into G-League level depth here.

I wonder if his chucking ways have got him a spot in the doghouse? THT sort of had those assignments in both of his Jazz years, so I think Hardy does use that stick.

 

[fishonjazz]

The answer is to give things for winning, not take away the safety net of losing.

As long as the safety net of losing is there and that safety net is better draft positioning there will be tanking.

 

[fishonjazz]

Yeah and my response meant that this year the bottom is so packed the problem is emphasized. I dont think its about the maximum odds as much as its about not falling from 3rd to 7th due to few meaningless wins. Usually I feel like the bottom 3-4 are at their own level of bad, but this year that isnt the case.

So in a normal year the current flat lottery wouldnt cause this much tanking... but this year there will be 1-2 bad teams drafting way later than they should based on their roster.

Yeah and the poster you were responding to was complaining about what tanking teams do in general, not this year specifically.
If you reward losing then teams are going to do tanking stuff, which the poster was saying he would prefer to be rid of.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Btw only now did I notice that Svi got a DNP-CD in this game despite us going into G-League level depth here.

I wonder if his chucking ways have got him a spot in the doghouse? THT sort of had those assignments in both of his Jazz years, so I think Hardy does use that stick.

Harkless better

 

[idiot]

The lottery isnt the issue. If draft was reverse standings like in the NFL, this would get much much uglier.

I think the problem this year is there are too many really bad teams. Wizards stand alone beneath everyone but there are 4 teams at 9 or 10 wins right now and Nets are aggressively dismantling their roster to join that pack and are starting to look like a team that may win less than a handful of games the rest of this season.

I dont think many GM's care about "pick ceilings" the way some of the hardcore tankers do... but with this many teams close to each other 1 or 2 wins may be the difference between top 3 odds and 6th (or even 7th, if Portland also joins the party). 3rd worst gets 14% and 7th gets 7.5% so you nearly halve your chances there.

I think, like with the three-point shot, the league eventually catches up to what makes mathematical sense, tradition be damned.

So, I suspect the problem of "too many" tanking teams is just going to get worse over time. I doubt this year is a one-off situation.

(And yes I agree that if we're going to keep the lotto in some form, which I'm not wedded to by any means, the NBA ought to look into flattening the odds.)

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

As long as the safety net of losing is there and that safety net is better draft positioning there will be tanking.

Sure, but there will be less if there is incentive to win.

 

[idiot]

Sure, but there will be less if there is incentive to win.

What kind of incentive are you imagining, in our ring-or-failure NBA culture?