How long does a SUCCESSFUL tank need to be?

[idiot]

I thought i had made the comment re multiple year tank.

That's exactly what I said.

 

[The Midnight]

That's exactly what I said.

No you said @midnight_hwy did.

 

[David Hume]

I would expect such thorough empiricist as Davide Hume to be way more attentive to easily measurable differences in the draft process over that time before aggregating the results.

It is absolutely useless to look at the draft results of the 60s and 80s looking for the insights for the modern drafting. Back then they were drafting exclusively American players and (almost exclusively) only after they finished college, so the prospects typically were 22. Now most talented drafted players are drafted when they are 18 or 19 and a lot of them have never played in America but come from all kind of countries and playing experience. It is really hard to identify future superstars at that age and we can see that about 20 years ago the number of MVPs selected at the very top of the draft took a huge nosedive with the exception of an athletic freak LeBron, whose athletic dominance was evident way before 18.

Of course, Garnett, Kobe and Giannis would have gone 1st if they were drafted at the age of 22.

Kind Sir, I made no pronouncements of an analytic nature regarding the significance of these results. I provide historical figures here so that analysts such as yourself can provide robust commentary regarding import. Your judicious attention to the shift in draft age over thy decades is laudable.

 

[Schrödinger's Gerbil]

Don’t know how many times I have to say it but this **** is predicated on luck. The draft has almost nothing to do with skill, and mostly making a lucky or unlucky pick. For example the Jazz drafted Stockton because they needed a good backup for Ricky Green. No one knew how good he’d be. Look at the blazers, they drafted two bigs that had all the potential in the world but were derailed by horrific injuries and both times passed on generational talents. So it’s all about that and getting lucky with those ping pong balls. Cavs with LBJ the spurs twice with Duncan and Wemby. If I recall, I don’t think they were supposed to even get close to the first pic in both situations. Tell me if I’m wrong though. We need to 1. Get lucky with the ping pong balls or get lucky and pick the right guy. I do believe we are lucky to be bad in a draft year as good as this. Even outside the top 3 or 4 I think there are 2-3 all stars to be had.

My point is there is no right or wrong time frame for a rebuild other than being patient. In doing so you ensure building a complete team. Just don’t cut corners weather that takes 5 years or 10.

If a tank does take 10 years, that's A LOT of patience required of the fanbase, easily crossing the line from asking patience to flagrant incompetence and outright fan abuse. Any GM or front office group that subjects a team's fanbase to this level of suffering deserves all the shiite they get in return, including getting their asses fired long before the 10 years are up. It's hard to imagine there's any kind of return that would justify 10 years of intentional losing.

 

[idiot]

No you said @midnight_hwy did.

My apologies. Forgot the "The" and just went with the only "midnight" that appeared.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

If a tank does take 10 years, that's A LOT of patience required of the fanbase, easily crossing the line from asking patience to flagrant incompetence and outright fan abuse. Any GM or front office group that subjects a team's fanbase to this level of suffering deserves all the shiite they get in return, including getting their asses fired long before the 10 years are up. It's hard to imagine there's any kind of return that would justify 10 years of intentional losing.

Not really. Do you think a rebuild is just tanking?

 

[The Midnight]

My apologies. Forgot the "The" and just went with the only "midnight" that appeared.

All good man, thought that’s what happened ..lol..

 

[Schrödinger's Gerbil]

Not really. Do you think a rebuild is just tanking?

Whoops, sorry, I didn't catch that your context was rebuilding more broadly. No, a rebuild is more than tanking, whereas tanking is one possible rebuild strategy. I think we'd agree on that.

Even then, requiring 10 years for a rebuild is evidence of gross mismanagement. If you can't figure out how to rebuild a struggling team in significantly less than 10 years, you have no business running a team.

 

[HermanG]

I'm becoming more and more convinced that @idiot is not who he claims he is......

 

[HermanG]

According to some, tanking has hunders of shades. According to others, tanking and rebuilding (in a totally friendly and kind way!) are two different things. I think there is a disconnect in terminology somewhere there.

What the Jazz are doing isnt blatant tanking since we just havent skinned the roster nearly as much as we could have. But apparently those who dont see the shades of tanking arent really thinking we are rebuilding (in a totally friendly and kind way!).

I'm confused. Where is the line in the water for some of our aggressive "anti-tankers"? Are rebuilding teams allowed to trade away players and be careful with key players health? Are tankers allowed to retain good players? What are the rules here?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

New Pro-Jazz Conspiracy Theory:

Now that Luka is in LA the league wants Cooper in Utah to setup a new white one white rivalry between him and Luka.

 

[fishonjazz]

According to some, tanking has hunders of shades. According to others, tanking and rebuilding (in a totally friendly and kind way!) are two different things. I think there is a disconnect in terminology somewhere there.

What the Jazz are doing isnt blatant tanking since we just havent skinned the roster nearly as much as we could have. But apparently those who dont see the shades of tanking arent really thinking we are rebuilding (in a totally friendly and kind way!).

I'm confused. Where is the line in the water for some of our aggressive "anti-tankers"? Are rebuilding teams allowed to trade away players and be careful with key players health? Are tankers allowed to retain good players? What are the rules here?

I think its pretty simple. Are the jazz bottom 3 in the league because they cant be the 8th worst team in the league? Or are they bottom 3 because they want to be bottom 3?
I think they are bottom 3 because they want to be bottom 3 because they are tanking. I also think its pretty obvious. We will see Lauri and Kessler missing games soon but will have never seen the "injury" actually happen. Because we are tanking.