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2024-2025 Tank Race

Sober reminder: our (and the Wizards's, for that matter) chances of ending up with Cooper Flagg in the draft are lower than for the Wizards winning any randomly chosen game.
 
Sober reminder: our (and the Wizards's, for that matter) chances of ending up with Cooper Flagg in the draft are lower than for the Wizards winning any randomly chosen game.
We know our chances of getting Flagg are low. We all know that. We have been told many times already.
Don't rub it in
 
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I've worried before that sometimes we don't understand lottery odds very well. Today on Locked on Jazz, Leif Thulein gave at least two statements that lead to misunderstanding:

- "... once the odds reach 4th, they drop precipitously" & "once you reach 4th, you are in a scary position"
- then he goes on to talk about how top 3 lotto positions have a 52% chance of drafting top 4. While holding that thought he says, 50% isn't a guarantee you're drafting top 3, and then proceeds to talk like the odds for drafting top 3 (he somehow slid from talking about top 4 to top 3 without noticing) with a bottom 3 finish are 52%. He then goes on to imply that the "franchise altering talent" of Flagg, Harper, and Bailey that can only be had in the top 3 are vital for the Jazz -- that it will have been a kind of waste of the year if we don't draft top 3.

Why is he wrong?:

A bottom-3 finish only gives you 40% (not 52%) of drafting top 3. It's more likely than not (no matter where we finish, that we won't get franchise altering talent, even if we agree with Leif that Flagg, Harper, and Bailey all possess it).

Odds for finishing 4th are not much lower for getting the top talent than the odds for finishing 3rd. As I've argued before the difference in odds between 4th and 1st (or 2nd or 3rd) odds only matter mathematically (if you're talking about the number one pick) once every 67 years. If you're worried about the difference in the odds of getting Ace Bailey at number 3, then this difference only matters once every 125 years. Even if you decide that getting any one of the top 4 players is what really matters, the difference in those odds between 4th and 1st come into play mathematically once only every 25 years. So describing being in the 4th position (while being fairly safe, for the time being at least, out of danger of dropping to 5th) as a disaster is either terrible hyperbole or basic misunderstanding of how the lotto odds work.
Update: To be fair to Leif, he did much better today in accurately expressing the lottery odds.
 
I stand chastened.
We must resist the metaphysical impulses to seek explanations and comfort from Churroism and related non-empirical belief systems during this time of crisis. Practical steps we can take include establishing so called “strip clubs” that have an alluring effect on free agents. (“Free agents” should not be conflated with “free agency” or “indeterminism” lest we inexplicably fall into metaphysical stupor).
 
We know our chances of getting Flagg are low. We all know that. We have been told many times already.
Don't rub it in
But why are people so fixated specifically on Flagg? Historically the can't-miss-prospects were deemed such because of their otherworldly athleticism. At least after everybody shifted to being drafted at 18/19: Lebron, Wemby, Dwight Howard, Zion. But Flagg is not one of those athletic unicorns and: another player in the draft can easily end up having a better career.

A case in point is Blake Griffin: he was a good (but not freakishly good) athlete and was a unanimous 1st pick, but behind him were also drafted Harden and Curry. Another example is the unanimous 1st pick Wiggins, with Embiid and Jokic selected later. The same can easily happen this year.
 
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But why are people so fixated specifically on Flagg?
Probably because he is the person that those who get paid to evaluate college players who will be pro players think is the best. Dont over think it.
Those same people who get paid to evaluate college players seem to think he not only is the best player to enter this upcoming draft but one of the best players to enter any draft ever. Again, dont over think it.

You could also watch him play, look at his skills, look at his stats etc. Good news is that those who are paid to watch him are already doing that for us and they have watched him way more than you or I ever could as they have access we dont. They have been watching him for years at this point. They saw him play against lebron, KD, steph, Ant, etc already and look like he belongs. When he was 16 years old iirc.

In short, the reason people are so fixated on Flagg is because they should be. Dont over think it.

Question for you. Why do you think people should NOT be fixated on Flagg?
 
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Because of that post I decided to look up Flagg stats.
They were a little better than I thought.

32 minutes. 20 points, 7.6 rebounds, 4.0 assists, 1.6 steals, 1.2 blocks. 48.3% from the field, 37% from 3, 81.4% from the line.

Plays in a good conference against good competition.

Everything i hear is he is a good defender. Good athlete. Plays multiple positions. Versatile. Extremely young (just turned 18 in December. He was playing at Duke at a 17 year old). Good size. (6 foot 9)

In 2022, he was named USA Basketball Male Athlete of the Year after winning a gold medal at the FIBA Under-17 Basketball World Cup.
He was named to the USA Select Team to practice with the United States men's national team in preparation for the 2024 Summer Olympics.

He is expected to be the second-youngest college player ever drafted to the NBA.

Damn it, now I'm even more fixated on Flagg.

Tank note Jazz. And tank on
 
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Probably because he is the person that those who get paid to evaluate college players who will be pro players think is the best. Dont over think it.
Those same people who get paid to evaluate college players seem to think he not only is the best player to enter this upcoming draft but one of the best players to enter any draft ever. Again, dont over think it.

You could also watch him play, look at his skills, look at his stats etc. Good news is that those who are paid to watch him are already doing that for us and they have watched him way more than you or I ever could as they have access we dont. They have been watching him for years at this point. They saw him play against lebron, KD, steph, Ant, etc already and look like he belongs. When he was 16 years old iirc.

In short, the reason people are so fixated on Flagg is because they should be. Dont over think it.

Question for you. Why do you think people should NOT be fixated on Flagg?
Because, odds are, he won't be a Jazzman.
 
Because, odds are, he won't be a Jazzman.
Odds are that way for literally every player who enters the draft doe.
But you know what I meant. What are the reasons to not desire Flagg on the jazz?
 
Fwiw Flagg is a smart kid apparently as well.
In the fall semester, Flagg was one of two players to earn a 4.0 GPA at Duke.
In 2023, Flagg was named the Gatorade National Boys Basketball Player of the Year and had a weighted GPA of 4.10 (is 4.10 gpa good?)
 
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