Can I just say that I'm sick and tired of the press [aka ESPN] calling out the Jazz for tanking?

[Schrödinger's Gerbil]

Oh, for crying out loud. Boo hoo. The entire NBA media ecosystem has gone from embracing tanking to full evangelical revival mode—hands raised, eyes closed, preaching the holy gospel of “tear it down” as if it’s divine revelation handed down from the basketball gods. And I mean everyone: every pundit, blog boy, podcaster, YouTube prophet, and talking-head rent-a-brain has not merely jumped on the tanking bandwagon, they’ve strapped themselves to the hood like it’s the last helicopter out of Saigon.

And yet somehow, amid this unanimous, full-throated sermonizing, I’ve never once heard a serious skeptic ask the most basic questions: Does structural tanking actually work? Is it a reliable path to a championship, or even sustained deep playoff runs? (Spoiler: the evidence says no.) What does a “successful tank” even mean? Three years? Five? A decade of aesthetic misery punctuated by ping-pong balls? And what about costs -- actual, measurable costs -- so we could talk like adults about return on investment instead of treating deliberate losing like it’s some kind of advanced analytics cheat code?

And don’t even get me started on the ethics. Tanking isn’t some abstract strategy on a whiteboard; it’s a business model built on exploiting fan loyalty. It’s intentionally selling a shiIty product for not one, not two, not three, and often not four or more years, while still charging premium prices for tickets, parking, and concessions, all while peddling “hope” they can’t guarantee in any way, shape, or form. It’s basically “trust the process,” etched by the finger of God onto tablets of stone and brought down from the mountain top.

The entire NBA landscape is now saturated with tanking, talking about it, praising it, promoting it, ridiculing teams that don’t tank hard enough, and absolutely savaging any franchise that decides, audaciously, to stop hemorrhaging losses and attempt the radical experiment of trying to win basketball games. You know, acquiring veterans, balancing out young players, building a roster that resembles an actual professional team rather than a G-League witness protection program.

And now, now, after years of nonstop cheerleading, suddenly the same media crowd is clutching its pearls: “Oh my heavens, the Jazz are tanking too much! Where is my fainting couch? Fetch the smelling salts!” Give me a f’n break. You helped create this monster. You fed it. You raised it. You tucked it in at night and whispered sweet nothings about draft odds and asset accumulation. For years, it’s been: more tanking, more tanking, there’s not enough tanking.

Well, apparently, there is enough tanking.

So instead of acting self-righteous about the grotesque creature you midwifed and nurtured so lovingly, maybe, just maybe, you could’ve engaged in a nuanced, informed, and critical discourse on tanking from the beginning. But no. That would’ve required thought, intellectual consistency, and a memory longer than a single NBA season.

In summary, to all the same NBA intelligentsia now suddenly reaching for their smelling salts over the Jazz, shut the F up.

 

[framer]

Oh, for crying out loud. Boo hoo. The entire NBA media ecosystem has gone from embracing tanking to full evangelical revival mode—hands raised, eyes closed, preaching the holy gospel of “tear it down” as if it’s divine revelation handed down from the basketball gods. And I mean everyone: every pundit, blog boy, podcaster, YouTube prophet, and talking-head rent-a-brain has not merely jumped on the tanking bandwagon, they’ve strapped themselves to the hood like it’s the last helicopter out of Saigon.

And yet somehow, amid this unanimous, full-throated sermonizing, I’ve never once heard a serious skeptic ask the most basic questions: Does structural tanking actually work? Is it a reliable path to a championship, or even sustained deep playoff runs? (Spoiler: the evidence says no.) What does a “successful tank” even mean? Three years? Five? A decade of aesthetic misery punctuated by ping-pong balls? And what about costs -- actual, measurable costs -- so we could talk like adults about return on investment instead of treating deliberate losing like it’s some kind of advanced analytics cheat code?

And don’t even get me started on the ethics. Tanking isn’t some abstract strategy on a whiteboard; it’s a business model built on exploiting fan loyalty. It’s intentionally selling a shiIty product for not one, not two, not three, and often not four or more years, while still charging premium prices for tickets, parking, and concessions, all while peddling “hope” they can’t guarantee in any way, shape, or form. It’s basically “trust the process,” etched by the finger of God onto tablets of stone and brought down from the mountain top.

The entire NBA landscape is now saturated with tanking, talking about it, praising it, promoting it, ridiculing teams that don’t tank hard enough, and absolutely savaging any franchise that decides, audaciously, to stop hemorrhaging losses and attempt the radical experiment of trying to win basketball games. You know, acquiring veterans, balancing out young players, building a roster that resembles an actual professional team rather than a G-League witness protection program.

And now, now, after years of nonstop cheerleading, suddenly the same media crowd is clutching its pearls: “Oh my heavens, the Jazz are tanking too much! Where is my fainting couch? Fetch the smelling salts!” Give me a f’n break. You helped create this monster. You fed it. You raised it. You tucked it in at night and whispered sweet nothings about draft odds and asset accumulation. For years, it’s been: more tanking, more tanking, there’s not enough tanking.

Well, apparently, there is enough tanking.

So instead of acting self-righteous about the grotesque creature you midwifed and nurtured so lovingly, maybe, just maybe, you could’ve engaged in a nuanced, informed, and critical discourse on tanking from the beginning. But no. That would’ve required thought, intellectual consistency, and a memory longer than a single NBA season.

In summary, to all the same NBA intelligentsia now suddenly reaching for their smelling salts over the Jazz, shut the F up.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter. . .

 

[Goodluckchuck]

Also if the Jazz don't tank, their pick could go to OKC and make them even better. So if you think about it, we are doing the league a favor. For that, they can shut the F up!

 

[Zombie]

Oh, for crying out loud. Boo hoo. The entire NBA media ecosystem has gone from embracing tanking to full evangelical revival mode—hands raised, eyes closed, preaching the holy gospel of “tear it down” as if it’s divine revelation handed down from the basketball gods. And I mean everyone: every pundit, blog boy, podcaster, YouTube prophet, and talking-head rent-a-brain has not merely jumped on the tanking bandwagon, they’ve strapped themselves to the hood like it’s the last helicopter out of Saigon.

And yet somehow, amid this unanimous, full-throated sermonizing, I’ve never once heard a serious skeptic ask the most basic questions: Does structural tanking actually work? Is it a reliable path to a championship, or even sustained deep playoff runs? (Spoiler: the evidence says no.) What does a “successful tank” even mean? Three years? Five? A decade of aesthetic misery punctuated by ping-pong balls? And what about costs -- actual, measurable costs -- so we could talk like adults about return on investment instead of treating deliberate losing like it’s some kind of advanced analytics cheat code?

And don’t even get me started on the ethics. Tanking isn’t some abstract strategy on a whiteboard; it’s a business model built on exploiting fan loyalty. It’s intentionally selling a shiIty product for not one, not two, not three, and often not four or more years, while still charging premium prices for tickets, parking, and concessions, all while peddling “hope” they can’t guarantee in any way, shape, or form. It’s basically “trust the process,” etched by the finger of God onto tablets of stone and brought down from the mountain top.

The entire NBA landscape is now saturated with tanking, talking about it, praising it, promoting it, ridiculing teams that don’t tank hard enough, and absolutely savaging any franchise that decides, audaciously, to stop hemorrhaging losses and attempt the radical experiment of trying to win basketball games. You know, acquiring veterans, balancing out young players, building a roster that resembles an actual professional team rather than a G-League witness protection program.

And now, now, after years of nonstop cheerleading, suddenly the same media crowd is clutching its pearls: “Oh my heavens, the Jazz are tanking too much! Where is my fainting couch? Fetch the smelling salts!” Give me a f’n break. You helped create this monster. You fed it. You raised it. You tucked it in at night and whispered sweet nothings about draft odds and asset accumulation. For years, it’s been: more tanking, more tanking, there’s not enough tanking.

Well, apparently, there is enough tanking.

So instead of acting self-righteous about the grotesque creature you midwifed and nurtured so lovingly, maybe, just maybe, you could’ve engaged in a nuanced, informed, and critical discourse on tanking from the beginning. But no. That would’ve required thought, intellectual consistency, and a memory longer than a single NBA season.

In summary, to all the same NBA intelligentsia now suddenly reaching for their smelling salts over the Jazz, shut the F up.

Post of the century right here

 

[jom2003]

Also if the Jazz don't tank, their pick could go to OKC and make them even better. So if you think about it, we are doing the league a favor. For that, they can shut the F up!

And potentially ruining a great prospect by putting him on a well established championship caliber team that is 12 men deep so he barely gets any minutes. Tragic story brought to you by Darko Milicic.

 

[idiot]

if a boxer throws a game, he's villainized for it and maybe jail. if an nba team throws a game it's not only allowed but some even call it good tactics. i don't know if i even like the nba anymore.

Euro/international teams throw games on the regular when they think it gives them a competitive advantage in the future (as in easier tournament path, being able to keep best plays for more important games, etc.) To a lesser extent, happens in the NBA too.

 

[GunterD]

The allure of watching professional sports is about the unpredictability. One team may be much stronger, but you don't really know what's going to happen. The business around sports is tied to watching things play out live, there's no money in reruns because there's no reason to watch if you already know what's going to happen. The unpredictability is there because you have two opposing forces working towards the same goal, but only one can achieve it.

With the "fake an injury" brand of tanking, people get to maintain the illusion that the actual game maintains the unpredictability. Shenanigans happen off the court, but on the court, both teams are still trying to accomplish the same thing and you don't know what's going to happen. It is just an illusion, the teams really have different goals and so the competition is spoiled, but setting it up this way lets you pretend its not. Also, all the information is available at the start of the game, when the gambling bets are locked in.

With what we are doing, we're shattering the illusion. We're making in-game decisions that remind people that we are not striving for the same goal as the other team, the competition is compromised. I also think it makes people uncomfortable because it highlights how a referee, or a coaches substitution patterns, or a player not really giving it their all, can easily manipulate the outcome of the game. And because of gambling, there's always the possibility someone is being incentivized to do that. It begs shining a light on the competitions that could show something people don't want to acknowledge or know about.

So in short, people are freaking out about this because its shattering their illusions about the integrity of the sport and forcing them to acknowledge that other incentives outside of trying to win influence the outcome of individual games. Its something I think the league will need to address strongly because they need that illusion to sell tickets and tv contracts.

But from my personal standpoint, what we're doing is way better than anyone else. You still get to see the best players for 2/3 of a game, and we're keeping the games close, so the young guys are getting development time in important and competitive minutes, rather than things turning into blowout snoozefests.

 

[Tom Pitt]

Bam Adebayo called out the Jazz for their egregious tanking

After the Miami Heat lost to the Utah Jazz on Monday evening, Heat big man Bam Adebayo had some comments to share about the disappointing performance.

ftw.usatoday.com

Cry about it

 

[jumpin bean]

Jazz grow their team like a garden Our bench are mainly part of that garden we develop players here not filling rosters with scrubs The heat just found that and is proof that we are getting our garden to grow and the gripers see it too and thats what irks them

 

[Tremendous Upside]

The allure of watching professional sports is about the unpredictability. One team may be much stronger, but you don't really know what's going to happen. The business around sports is tied to watching things play out live, there's no money in reruns because there's no reason to watch if you already know what's going to happen. The unpredictability is there because you have two opposing forces working towards the same goal, but only one can achieve it.

With the "fake an injury" brand of tanking, people get to maintain the illusion that the actual game maintains the unpredictability. Shenanigans happen off the court, but on the court, both teams are still trying to accomplish the same thing and you don't know what's going to happen. It is just an illusion, the teams really have different goals and so the competition is spoiled, but setting it up this way lets you pretend its not. Also, all the information is available at the start of the game, when the gambling bets are locked in.

With what we are doing, we're shattering the illusion. We're making in-game decisions that remind people that we are not striving for the same goal as the other team, the competition is compromised. I also think it makes people uncomfortable because it highlights how a referee, or a coaches substitution patterns, or a player not really giving it their all, can easily manipulate the outcome of the game. And because of gambling, there's always the possibility someone is being incentivized to do that. It begs shining a light on the competitions that could show something people don't want to acknowledge or know about.

So in short, people are freaking out about this because its shattering their illusions about the integrity of the sport and forcing them to acknowledge that other incentives outside of trying to win influence the outcome of individual games. Its something I think the league will need to address strongly because they need that illusion to sell tickets and tv contracts.

Fantastic post, especially the bolded part. This is exactly why everyone's focusing on the Jazz right now. Blatant in-game shenanigans like we saw in the Orlando game are so close to illegal point-shaving and game-fixing for profit that people are rightly repulsed by it.

But from my personal standpoint, what we're doing is way better than anyone else. You still get to see the best players for 2/3 of a game, and we're keeping the games close, so the young guys are getting development time in important and competitive minutes, rather than things turning into blowout snoozefests.

This part, though, was just weapons grade copium. We're not better than the other tankers. We're worse. Way worse.

This is easily a play-in / playoff team. We don't have stars with legit long term injuries or a terrible roster. We could be good right now if we chose to. None of the other tankers can say that.

 

[MTS]

Fantastic post, especially the bolded part. This is exactly why everyone's focusing on the Jazz right now. Blatant in-game shenanigans like we saw in the Orlando game are so close to illegal point-shaving and game-fixing for profit that people are rightly repulsed by it.

If people within the Jazz front office were betting on games or selling their inside information to other betters, then sure.

Absent that, implying that tanking is close to "illegal point-shaving and game-fixing" is unfathomably moronic.

 

[GunterD]

This part, though, was just weapons grade copium. We're not better than the other tankers. We're worse. Way worse.

This is easily a play-in / playoff team. We don't have stars with legit long term injuries or a terrible roster. We could be good right now if we chose to. None of the other tankers can say that.

Specifically I am saying that I see playing a guy 2/3 of a game better than holding him out of it completely, and that I enjoy watching close games more than blowouts. Not necessarily commenting on the Jazz vs other teams, I'm talking about this tanking strategy vs the fake injury strategy.