Please take a side! Next PG for the Jazz out of the 2012 draft.
- Thread starter orangello
- Start date
Weezur
Well-Known Member
See I was of that opinion too, but I liked what that other guy said...that if you have 5 threats on the floor that can beat their men then you've got a great chance at taking it all.
On the flip end, Marshall's passing and ability to run the offense fits what the Jazz want of their point gaurd in thier system.
So I'm 40:60 on this....with Marhsall being 60.
Thee Jazz Fan
Well-Known Member
My question is can Rivers run an offense.
From everything I've heard he dominates the ball and at times isn't interested in passing, at times and seems selfish at times. A lot of people here have said that getting just one shooter will not fix our problem. Getting Rivers won't help the offense. I don't see Rivers getting us into our offense and running Ty's plays, resulting in more outside shots outside the context of the offense.
Part of our shooting problems are they are done outside the context of the offense, and the wings not getting the ball in the right spots. Rivers would dominate the ball too much causing him or someone else to force up a lot of bad shots.
Marshall would get the team into the offense earlier, get us more layups more team assists, make Favors Kanter and Millsap slashers instead of nothing but post up players, trade Al at the end of this season. Most importantly he makes Bell, Cj, Hayward and who ever we draft and sign better, by getting them shots with in the context of the offense instead of the wings watching Al and Millsap post up and force bad shots they will move more make more cuts because Marshall isn't going to settle for just feeding the ball into the post all damn game long.
For me it's Marshall 100%!
From everything I've heard he dominates the ball and at times isn't interested in passing, at times and seems selfish at times. A lot of people here have said that getting just one shooter will not fix our problem. Getting Rivers won't help the offense. I don't see Rivers getting us into our offense and running Ty's plays, resulting in more outside shots outside the context of the offense.
Part of our shooting problems are they are done outside the context of the offense, and the wings not getting the ball in the right spots. Rivers would dominate the ball too much causing him or someone else to force up a lot of bad shots.
Marshall would get the team into the offense earlier, get us more layups more team assists, make Favors Kanter and Millsap slashers instead of nothing but post up players, trade Al at the end of this season. Most importantly he makes Bell, Cj, Hayward and who ever we draft and sign better, by getting them shots with in the context of the offense instead of the wings watching Al and Millsap post up and force bad shots they will move more make more cuts because Marshall isn't going to settle for just feeding the ball into the post all damn game long.
For me it's Marshall 100%!
I have no problems with either, but I must say that I'm exciting about an elite passer from the 1 position, provided that Kanter and Favors are the inside presence I think they can be. It's why I'd choose Marshall, especially if the Jazz end up with two picks and can get him with the 13ish pick.
I do agree with the reservations of having a 1 that can't shoot with no other outside shooters is a very valid concern though.
I do agree with the reservations of having a 1 that can't shoot with no other outside shooters is a very valid concern though.
It's Marshall all the way for me.
Shooting
Yes he has question mark on his shooting. I get that. But so did Rubio. Kidd. Rondo.
Court vision/Floor general
I'd rather have a floor general who has good court vision, sharing the ball and most importantly - can run a team properly, than a Jason Terry/Mayo type player. Yes those players are great to have - if your team already has a solid player at the PG position.
Fit with Utah
I just think Marshall will be a better fit. The Jazz relies on its system more than any team. Also is Utah going to be behind with a shoot first PG, who dribbles around looking for his own shot? Or someone who incorporates the whole team?
Jazz lacks shooters
One question - in the NBA - is it easier to get an elite passing PG (Rubio, Rondo, Kidd) or is it easier to find 3pt shooters (Korver, Cook, Terry, Morrow, Wright, etc, etc, etc, the list goes on). Shooters are easy to get - an elite passing PG on the other hand is not easy to come by.
Just how I feel.
Shooting
Yes he has question mark on his shooting. I get that. But so did Rubio. Kidd. Rondo.
Court vision/Floor general
I'd rather have a floor general who has good court vision, sharing the ball and most importantly - can run a team properly, than a Jason Terry/Mayo type player. Yes those players are great to have - if your team already has a solid player at the PG position.
Fit with Utah
I just think Marshall will be a better fit. The Jazz relies on its system more than any team. Also is Utah going to be behind with a shoot first PG, who dribbles around looking for his own shot? Or someone who incorporates the whole team?
Jazz lacks shooters
One question - in the NBA - is it easier to get an elite passing PG (Rubio, Rondo, Kidd) or is it easier to find 3pt shooters (Korver, Cook, Terry, Morrow, Wright, etc, etc, etc, the list goes on). Shooters are easy to get - an elite passing PG on the other hand is not easy to come by.
Just how I feel.
Weezur
Well-Known Member
I like how you feel. I'm moving my position from 40:60 to 30:70 in favor of Marshall.
I'm persuadable like that.
orangello
Well-Known Member
Ok, this discussion is getting interesting. Here are some categories and feel free to fill in who is better for each of these areas:
Offense:
Shooting:
Passing:
Defense:
Bball IQ:
Athleticism:
Speed:
Intangibles:
If there are others that should be posted please include them.
Offense:
Shooting:
Passing:
Defense:
Bball IQ:
Athleticism:
Speed:
Intangibles:
If there are others that should be posted please include them.
orangello
Well-Known Member
This is how it goes for me.
Offense: Rivers
Shooting: Rivers
Passing: Marshall
Defense: Rivers
Bball IQ: Toss Up
Athleticism: Rivers
Speed: Rivers
Intangibles: Rivers
That sums it up for me.
I'm gonna get flamed but Damian Lilard. No I'm not saying to take him in the 8-14 range, but I wouldn't mind in the least moving one of our picks for another piece and a pick in the late teens/early 20's and picking this kid up. Simply put the kid balls the **** out, works his *** off, is a floor leader, makes his teammates better, high IQ and is instant offense. Biggest knock is probably the level of competition (or lack of) he plays against.
I personally think taking either Rivers or Marshall in the lotto is a compromise and "picking for the sake of picking". Neither shores up a potential starting position long term and thats what I think you should be picking for in the lottery or move it, package it, whatever. Rivers is a future 6th man and Marshall is decent backup PG in 5 years, IMO.
Thats my opinion and I'm sure it wont go over well.
orangello
Well-Known Member
At least you are willing to put it out there. You are the first non Rivers/Marshall poster
Thats fine, and I'll assume you've seen him more than myself, but where? PG? The 2?
I think he'll have a very solid career, actually. But more as a guy who provides a spark off the bench and sometimes you leave him on the floor as a result to do his thing, but I cant see him running the point in any traditional sense. I can only see him at the 2 but not on the Jazz.
I see Rivers as slightly less athletic but much better BBIQ Monta Ellis. Rivers is going to do what he is good at. Scoring and getting into the lane. We shouldn't try and make him someone other than who he is. His style of play is going be similar to Derrick Rose's. Which is winning basketball but not what we are accustom to from the PG position. But I will take winning or a passing style every day of the week.
Lillard looks like a very good, complete player. He doesn't have it and won't be a centerpiece of a team. But he could be a very good complementary player. The Jazz have several very good role players. We need a star.
In summary I want Rivers. I would be okay with Lillard. I want no part of Marshall.
Lillard looks like a very good, complete player. He doesn't have it and won't be a centerpiece of a team. But he could be a very good complementary player. The Jazz have several very good role players. We need a star.
In summary I want Rivers. I would be okay with Lillard. I want no part of Marshall.
squareinthecircle
Well-Known Member
We need to take BPA then possibly trade for needs. We do need a PG no doubt but we also need a wing that can shoot and score, so we shouldn't try to make something happen that might not be there.
I am not familiar yet with the emerging kids but we are in a position to do something like take a point forward or something. I'm just saying lets broaden our scope.
I am not familiar yet with the emerging kids but we are in a position to do something like take a point forward or something. I'm just saying lets broaden our scope.
You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.
I guess i ask you this then: which kind of star though? Monta/Curry/Martin type or Wade (who, to be fair, wasn't seen as a "no brainer" out of college) Durrant type? I see Martin etc, personally. Again, I like Rivers, I really do but I dont see him being "the guy" on a perennial championship contender. I see him as a guy that will figure out how to get his in the league quickly.
As to Lilard not being that guy either? Yup, but in my scenario we also get another piece AND a very solid potential starter.
Simply put, we need a PG and 1+ shooters...........luckily we have A LOT of assets to make that happen. That said, I don't care if we dont make a single pick in this draft as a result.