kwb
Well-Known Member
Is there possibly another CJ they may have been thinking about?
LOL Now on ESPN rumor page says CJ and Harris are on the Trade block
- Thread starter Mission Accomplished
- Start date
Is there possibly another CJ they may have been thinking about?
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
This is a total misperception. Way before KOC, the Jazz always tried to bring in complementary players or improve at key positions- some in the offseason, some via midseason deals. Examples: Carr, Mike Brown, Spencer, Jeff Malone replacing Hansen, Corbin replacing Bailey, Hornacek for J. Malone, etc. More recently, Korver was brought in to replac Giricek - and help with 4th quarter FT's and outside shooting. And Fisher was brought in to be a veteran leader.
I'm an older guy, so I remember the entirety of the Stockton/Malone era. Not once did a FA state he wanted to come to Utah and would take less money to do so, just to play for a shot at a title. In fact, a couple of trades were cancelled due to players REFUSING the trade (Seikaly and Harper). Harper had the famous "You go live in Utah" quote.
As much as I love Stockton and Malone, I just don't consider them true "clutch" players. Yes, they each hit a few game-winners and put up big numbers, but certainly not the number of clutch shots like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, Kobe. And in the playoffs not even like "Big Shot Bob" Horry or even Derek Fisher, who also seemed to drain those key 3's when needed.
Utah was so close in the 90's, but first they couldn't get past Portland, then it was Chicago and Houston. Then there were the almost inexplicable playoff upsets to Golden State, Seattle, etc. Utah underachieved due to the lack of clutch play from their stars, and dare I say it....Sloan was simply outcoached. Much like his star players, Jerry was a regular season legend, but just didn't step it up it the playoffs. He never adjusted his tactics or matchups.
As frustrated as we may get with GM's past and present, I think they've done a decent job of trying to get "missing pieces" to push for a title. It just ain't easy due to the team being in Utah.
Maybe they meant to say his defense is offensive?
Weezur
Well-Known Member
The only other one is CJ Watson....that's gotta be it.
I personally think his offense is worse than his defense. Nobody with good offense shoots a fade away 3 pointer off a curl when there's 21 seconds left on the shot clock.
But then again, he has given up a 4 point play in clutch time, fouled someone with 0.5 on the game clock twice...
You know what? I think his offense and defense are equally as bad as each other. It's hard to say.
Hey, that's right, ESPN left out that he's also consistent.
JJ Rage
Active Member
Weezur
Well-Known Member
True, but they go hand in hand.
With all the message boards I've been on for different teams over the past decade it's pretty much the same types of posts. This group hates that player, that group hates this player. This player is garbage so we should trade him. Our team should have nothing but all-stars on it. Our coach sucks because he put so and so in the game and we lost. The GM isn't doing enough to get rid of the players we hate so we can get all-stars. We should trade a point guard for a center (because that always happens in the NBA - not).
Sport fans are emotional. I know, I have always been extremely passionate about my teams and favorite players, and my rational side tells me there's no way I could be a coach cause I'd get t'd up and kicked out of probably every game. But if you let rationality win you'll see that you don't really want a GM who lets slip the fact that he's shopping guys or trying to make deals. Even trade rumors that writers post on ESPN become distractions. Why did Kobe call out the Lakers on the Pau trade? Because it's a freaking distraction to everyone that they don't need. Guys are traded. That's the business side of the game. But thinking you might be traded any day, or that a teammate might be traded any day and you'll need to work in a new guy, that doesn't help guys focus and win games. There are trade ideas in the works all the time, and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. And what folks have said about the destination, it's definitely true. Guys want to be in NY or LA or Miami. A city with a whole lot going on. I went to Utah once when I was in school to see UCLA play BYU in football. Only one African American guy came on that trip with my group, and he joked that he saw another black guy on the other side of the stadium so he was going to go sit with him. It was definitely different than LA (and I still have trouble dealing with the fact that there was a cheese curd cart at the stadium), where as my mom said, "it's like the United Nations here." She's been living in Oregon too long in my opinion.
All of Los Angeles isn't Hollywood and the beach and wild parties. All of Utah isn't the church and no caffeine or alcohol (I assume), all of Detroit and Oakland aren't ghettos (I assume, though there are only certain parts of Oakland to which I have travelled), and not all of Oklahoma is white except for athletes (my cousin plays baseball for Oklahoma Baptist by the way), but these places have reputations of being such, especially by people who come from entirely different parts of the world/country. My point - Yeah, if a top tier star is going to sign somewhere he's much more likely to sign with a team in a large market over one where he perceives the location to be one he wouldn't be comfortable in. So a GM also needs to take that into consideration - do I try to trade for a big star who'll come here for a year or two while he's under contract, just to have him bolt the first time he enters free agency?
One more point, then I'll get off my soapbox and get to work (I took the morning off to get an injection in my left hip, just as my right leg has started to go numb. Pinched nerves in all four limbs is really not my idea of fun, so yeah, I'm trying to ignore pain by writing). You guys are all Jazz fans (or maybe some are just here trolling to piss off Jazz fans). Ty Corbin is at the moment, but I'm sure he's more a fan of his job than he is of the Jazz and a future that might happen without him. If he has no communication from management saying that regardless of win total he'll still be coaching in a year or two with this organization then he might try some of the things some of you have mentioned in your rants as to why he's a terrible coach. But for him, he's trying to keep his job, and in trying to keep his job he's going with the guys that he believes should win the game on paper, on experience, and on statistics. As much as some of you may want to see the team tank to get a better chance at a high draft pick, or to play the younger guys more minutes, none of that does him any good if he's gone, so he's going to go with what he thinks should get his team wins. Whether or not that's worked out, well, we know that in many cases it hasn't worked out, but if guys are playing at the optimum level they should have at least a few more wins. And if you recall, early in the season there were quite a few games where the second unit was in, went on a run, and then faded, allowing the other teams to creep back in. Ty may be going on past experience with conditioning levels as a consideration. I do agree that he should mix the bigs up though. I'm not saying the suggestions on this board are totally off at all. Just that he may not be playing guys the way you want him to play them, and part of that may be a mistake, but part may also be about having the 5 best guys at this time on this team on the floor for the majority of games whenever possible. Turn-overs, lack of defense and rebounding, and shooting aside...
Sport fans are emotional. I know, I have always been extremely passionate about my teams and favorite players, and my rational side tells me there's no way I could be a coach cause I'd get t'd up and kicked out of probably every game. But if you let rationality win you'll see that you don't really want a GM who lets slip the fact that he's shopping guys or trying to make deals. Even trade rumors that writers post on ESPN become distractions. Why did Kobe call out the Lakers on the Pau trade? Because it's a freaking distraction to everyone that they don't need. Guys are traded. That's the business side of the game. But thinking you might be traded any day, or that a teammate might be traded any day and you'll need to work in a new guy, that doesn't help guys focus and win games. There are trade ideas in the works all the time, and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. And what folks have said about the destination, it's definitely true. Guys want to be in NY or LA or Miami. A city with a whole lot going on. I went to Utah once when I was in school to see UCLA play BYU in football. Only one African American guy came on that trip with my group, and he joked that he saw another black guy on the other side of the stadium so he was going to go sit with him. It was definitely different than LA (and I still have trouble dealing with the fact that there was a cheese curd cart at the stadium), where as my mom said, "it's like the United Nations here." She's been living in Oregon too long in my opinion.
All of Los Angeles isn't Hollywood and the beach and wild parties. All of Utah isn't the church and no caffeine or alcohol (I assume), all of Detroit and Oakland aren't ghettos (I assume, though there are only certain parts of Oakland to which I have travelled), and not all of Oklahoma is white except for athletes (my cousin plays baseball for Oklahoma Baptist by the way), but these places have reputations of being such, especially by people who come from entirely different parts of the world/country. My point - Yeah, if a top tier star is going to sign somewhere he's much more likely to sign with a team in a large market over one where he perceives the location to be one he wouldn't be comfortable in. So a GM also needs to take that into consideration - do I try to trade for a big star who'll come here for a year or two while he's under contract, just to have him bolt the first time he enters free agency?
One more point, then I'll get off my soapbox and get to work (I took the morning off to get an injection in my left hip, just as my right leg has started to go numb. Pinched nerves in all four limbs is really not my idea of fun, so yeah, I'm trying to ignore pain by writing). You guys are all Jazz fans (or maybe some are just here trolling to piss off Jazz fans). Ty Corbin is at the moment, but I'm sure he's more a fan of his job than he is of the Jazz and a future that might happen without him. If he has no communication from management saying that regardless of win total he'll still be coaching in a year or two with this organization then he might try some of the things some of you have mentioned in your rants as to why he's a terrible coach. But for him, he's trying to keep his job, and in trying to keep his job he's going with the guys that he believes should win the game on paper, on experience, and on statistics. As much as some of you may want to see the team tank to get a better chance at a high draft pick, or to play the younger guys more minutes, none of that does him any good if he's gone, so he's going to go with what he thinks should get his team wins. Whether or not that's worked out, well, we know that in many cases it hasn't worked out, but if guys are playing at the optimum level they should have at least a few more wins. And if you recall, early in the season there were quite a few games where the second unit was in, went on a run, and then faded, allowing the other teams to creep back in. Ty may be going on past experience with conditioning levels as a consideration. I do agree that he should mix the bigs up though. I'm not saying the suggestions on this board are totally off at all. Just that he may not be playing guys the way you want him to play them, and part of that may be a mistake, but part may also be about having the 5 best guys at this time on this team on the floor for the majority of games whenever possible. Turn-overs, lack of defense and rebounding, and shooting aside...
With all the message boards I've been on for different teams over the past decade it's pretty much the same types of posts. This group hates that player, that group hates this player. This player is garbage so we should trade him. Our team should have nothing but all-stars on it. Our coach sucks because he put so and so in the game and we lost. The GM isn't doing enough to get rid of the players we hate so we can get all-stars. We should trade a point guard for a center (because that always happens in the NBA - not).
Sport fans are emotional. I know, I have always been extremely passionate about my teams and favorite players, and my rational side tells me there's no way I could be a coach cause I'd get t'd up and kicked out of probably every game. But if you let rationality win you'll see that you don't really want a GM who lets slip the fact that he's shopping guys or trying to make deals. Even trade rumors that writers post on ESPN become distractions. Why did Kobe call out the Lakers on the Pau trade? Because it's a freaking distraction to everyone that they don't need. Guys are traded. That's the business side of the game. But thinking you might be traded any day, or that a teammate might be traded any day and you'll need to work in a new guy, that doesn't help guys focus and win games. There are trade ideas in the works all the time, and sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. And what folks have said about the destination, it's definitely true. Guys want to be in NY or LA or Miami. A city with a whole lot going on. I went to Utah once when I was in school to see UCLA play BYU in football. Only one African American guy came on that trip with my group, and he joked that he saw another black guy on the other side of the stadium so he was going to go sit with him. It was definitely different than LA (and I still have trouble dealing with the fact that there was a cheese curd cart at the stadium), where as my mom said, "it's like the United Nations here." She's been living in Oregon too long in my opinion.
All of Los Angeles isn't Hollywood and the beach and wild parties. All of Utah isn't the church and no caffeine or alcohol (I assume), all of Detroit and Oakland aren't ghettos (I assume, though there are only certain parts of Oakland to which I have travelled), and not all of Oklahoma is white except for athletes (my cousin plays baseball for Oklahoma Baptist by the way), but these places have reputations of being such, especially by people who come from entirely different parts of the world/country. My point - Yeah, if a top tier star is going to sign somewhere he's much more likely to sign with a team in a large market over one where he perceives the location to be one he wouldn't be comfortable in. So a GM also needs to take that into consideration - do I try to trade for a big star who'll come here for a year or two while he's under contract, just to have him bolt the first time he enters free agency?
One more point, then I'll get off my soapbox and get to work (I took the morning off to get an injection in my left hip, just as my right leg has started to go numb. Pinched nerves in all four limbs is really not my idea of fun, so yeah, I'm trying to ignore pain by writing). You guys are all Jazz fans (or maybe some are just here trolling to piss off Jazz fans). Ty Corbin is at the moment, but I'm sure he's more a fan of his job than he is of the Jazz and a future that might happen without him. If he has no communication from management saying that regardless of win total he'll still be coaching in a year or two with this organization then he might try some of the things some of you have mentioned in your rants as to why he's a terrible coach. But for him, he's trying to keep his job, and in trying to keep his job he's going with the guys that he believes should win the game on paper, on experience, and on statistics. As much as some of you may want to see the team tank to get a better chance at a high draft pick, or to play the younger guys more minutes, none of that does him any good if he's gone, so he's going to go with what he thinks should get his team wins. Whether or not that's worked out, well, we know that in many cases it hasn't worked out, but if guys are playing at the optimum level they should have at least a few more wins. And if you recall, early in the season there were quite a few games where the second unit was in, went on a run, and then faded, allowing the other teams to creep back in. Ty may be going on past experience with conditioning levels as a consideration. I do agree that he should mix the bigs up though. I'm not saying the suggestions on this board are totally off at all. Just that he may not be playing guys the way you want him to play them, and part of that may be a mistake, but part may also be about having the 5 best guys at this time on this team on the floor for the majority of games whenever possible. Turn-overs, lack of defense and rebounding, and shooting aside...
How is that relevant to anything we've been saying? We don't expect the Jazz to land Lebron James. All we want is the eventual trade of our underwhelming vets so that the youth get a chance to show what they got. It would also help to get a consistent shooter. But thanks for the anthropology lecture nonetheless.
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Ha, damn .. not the answer I was looking for ..
Duck Rodgers
Well-Known Member
Good take. Have you followed these stories out of UCLA the past couple days?
noun
1.
a letter, especially a formal or didactic one; written communication.
Sounds like the correct usage.