I would argue that it has more to do with cultural norms in a society. There are lots of prejudices that have nothing to do with homosexuality and/or religion. Religion is simply used to justify homophobia in many cases.
Homophobes likely homosexual themselves.
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I would argue that it has more to do with cultural norms in a society. There are lots of prejudices that have nothing to do with homosexuality and/or religion. Religion is simply used to justify homophobia in many cases.
Unfortunately, any studies critical of religion face significant opposition from all of society's strata. The absurd idea that faith is something to be protected is ingrained in American psyche, so it's difficult to find a study that answer that question precisely.
However, a quick Google search yields some results, like these:
https://epiphenom.fieldofscience.com/2009/03/whats-connection-between-religion-and.html
https://blog.chron.com/believeitorn...on-contributes-to-homophobia-and-gay-suicide/
But we're not talking about those. We're talking about homosexuality. It seems obvious that the vast majority of those opposed to homosexuality come from a religious background.
AlaskanAssassin
Well-Known Member
Yes, a couple of Atheists actually. One was raised Christian but is genuinely Atheist now. They probably wouldn't label themselves as Homophobic (who would?), but they would occasionally use homophobic slurs and consciously avoid associating with homosexuals. Although both were in favor of the right for homosexuals to marry. That's the difficult thing when you throw around a term like homophobic. It manifests in many different ways. If you truly know hundreds of atheists/agnostics, I'm sure there is some % of them that have some level of negative or discriminatory feelings towards homosexuals.
What about the holocaust? Was every Nazi religious?
I am simply talking about homophobia in American culture. Nazism, communism, Spanish Inquisition and so on and so forth happened in different times and contexts. I do not know enough about every single paradigm in human history to even attempt and correlate their beliefs with their attitudes. Those I do understand would simply take too long to dissect and relate to the subject.
The issue at hand is as such : Modern Western ideals do not lend themselves to homophobia (homosexuality is often objectively seen as simply people fulfilling a natural desire with anyone of their choosing). Even the argument for cultural attitudes does not work, because the norms cited are the ones inspired by religion (sexual prohibitions, Western views of marriage, etc). While I am sure homophobic non-believers exist, it is probably a residual effect from the religious inspired cultural norm (mostly). The fact remains, the vast majority of those who oppose homosexuality, or consider its practice morally wrong, are religious.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
I believe that in ancient Greek culture (from which Western society, culture, ideas, etc. emerged), pederasty was an established and widely accepted cultural practice, at least among the educated elite. The Romans certainly didn't have our modern sexual hangups either, for good or for ill. It was the emergence of eventual dominance of a much more sexually uptight Christian dogma that Western Society came to its current obsession with sex (or better put, its current obsession with who's doing what with whom and why it's sinful).
I'd say homophobia passed to Christianity from Judaism. In fact, agricultural societies of antiquity tended to be homophobic. I recommend a book called Sex at Dawn. It explains the subject very well. However, the reason homophobic attitudes persist in the modern world is mostly due to religion.
And you seem really smart. I'm glad you joined the conversation.
AtheistPreacher
Well-Known Member
I'd say homophobia passed to Christianity from Judaism. In fact, agricultural societies of antiquity tended to be homophobic. I recommend a book called Sex at Dawn. It explains the subject very well. However, the reason homophobic attitudes persist in the modern world is mostly due to religion.
And you seem really smart. I'm glad you joined the conversation.
The thing that you have to remember too is that back in Jesus' time there was no concept of homosexuality as an orientation or identity. There were men who had sex with other men or boys, but that didn't mean they were gay. But it was a common enough practice for the Romans, and there were also non-Jewish peoples who used to practice homosexuality in fertility rituals, or rape conquered enemies as a means of humiliation. The Jews distanced themselves from those practices partly as a means of differentiating themselves from others, and in any case it was just against the acts as acts done by otherwise "straight" people. If anyone had thought that homosexuality was actually a fundamental orientation rather than something that straight people occasionally did, it might have created a different conversation.
AlaskanAssassin
Well-Known Member
Probably should have stated that in an earlier post.
This is the important point I wanted to hear. They do exist, although they may be few and far between.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but you haven't backed up your claims with any links to studies or experiments. A study that many homophobes might be gay isn't connected to the point you are now trying to make. 83% of Americans (Link Below) identify with a religious denomination, 90% believe in God, and I would imagine nearly 100% have religious backgrounds in their family tree. Thus the claims you are making (that homophobes are all religious or are homophobic because of religious views passed to them from family members) have to be backed up with some studies because the parameters you defined would basically include everyone in America.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States
I could make the same claim that 100% of people that like PB&J sandwiches are religious people or people who have religious family members. It's hard to disprove that notion because the parameters include nearly everyone.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
The key here, I think, is not generic belief in God or identification/membership in a religion, but degree of 'religiosity.' As an example, and in very general terms, I'd say the more 'fundamentalist' one is with regards to religious belief, the higher the degree of religiosity, and the higher the degree of opposition to homosexuality.
Your categories are far far to broad to be useful. To take just one example, among 90% who believe in God, there is tremendous variation in the intensity of that belief and in the fundamentalism of the religious dogma they espouse. Again, my a priori hypothesis is that 'homophobia' is positively and significantly correlated with religiosity. And again, I'll bet the farm that there are studies on this that someone, who has the time and inclination, can look up and cite. And once again the final caveat, my hypothesis may be wrong which is why evidence is so, so much better than ideology/belief.