Jazz V Spurs II Why a back to back with the same team only Stern knows

[freakazoid]

However, if Hayward, Burks, Favors and Kanter are in fact "our guys" then if you can get them in the playoffs this year and perhaps maybe win a game or two, that scenario benefits our team more in the long run.
So Utah's second phase of rebuilding should come from trades and free agency - not the draft.

I don't dismiss the value of playoff experience, but for THIS team in it's CURRENT situation, upgrading our roster is the greater benefit, and it's not really close. People forget things like when we traded Giricek + pick for Korver. Keeping the pick can help us upgrade our roster, and it doesn't mean we have to add another rookie.

I`m surprised that a lot of people still don`t know that we only get our own pick this year if it`s a lottery pick. If we get into the play-offs, it`s Minnesota`s pick this year, not ours.

I forgot about that. Doesn't change my position though in regards how this team should be rebuilding going forward.

Not surprised by this in the least. I'd say 90% of fans who want playoffs over keeping our pick, just flat out don't really understand the whole situation. I'm not trying to insult anyone, I just don't think most fans really follow everything that closely that they can make an informed opinion. The other 10% are people who know they're wrong, but they want the playoffs so bad, they let their hearts do the thinking for them instead of their brain. There's nothing wrong with wanting playoffs, but the arguments of playoffs being more valuable than assets just doesn't fly.

That's why everyone making that argument goes out of their way to downplay the value of the pick, by saying things like we don't need more rookies, when that clearly isn't the only possibility when using it.

Using both picks to trade up, or using one of them in a trade for another vet are definite possibilties. If we can make a move like this, I think we definitely have a chance to win enough games next year to get HC in the first round. That's the only way this team gets to the second round, as we are a pretty crappy road team. If we make the playoffs this year, I think there's a good chance our FO sticks with the idea of keeping our current roster, and just trying to build on it. IMO, that puts us in the likely position of being in pretty much the same spot next year. Borderline playoff team, that even if we make the playoffs, we're nothing more than and automatic 1st round exit.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Ok, so we don't want to win, but we don't want to lose on purpose. Interesting. So we complain when we win because we get no first round pick. But we don't need to lose on purpose. So basically there's no way to make you happy other than to play our best and lose. Again, interesting.

Of course we don't want to lose on purpose.

We want this team to play hard, play the young players more, develop them, and lose heart breakers.

I want this team to lose, since getting draft picks and upgrading this team via trades, draft, FA is more beneficial to this team than being punked out of the playoffs in the first round and losing all the draft picks this year. This draft is deep and it would be a shame to be unable to capitalize somehow.

Play hard, develop the young guys, develop good habits, and lose in good close competitive games against superior teams. That is what would make me happy. Instead, I see our team play in cruise control through most of the first halves, rely too much on vets like Al Jefferson, don't develop good habits (Kanter still brings the ball down low. Favors still misses inside gimmies. Al is a complete disaster defensively, etc)... and (barely) win against D-league teams (like the Spurs without their Big 3). That makes me unhappy.

 

[sgjazzfan]

Without a doubt the best post in this thread as far as the "getting a lottery pick" argument goes. To clarify my stance on the situation because I think some may misunderstand. I understand wanting a lottery pick to try to better the team. I'm of the belief that any scenario of us making the playoffs or getting a lottery pick are good for us. It's just the "tanking" part that really aggravates me. I'm just totally against it.

I don't think anyone has advocated tanking or losing on purpose once, so you might be the one misunderstanding. I think everyone would agree that either scenario is good for us. Most of us, however, believer that a pick is much more positive than the playoffs and that making the playoffs has us losing a pick, therefore losing that positive you would have had. If you take a small positive and subtract a larger positive, you get a negative. Thats why we would prefer if the Jazz didn't make the playoffs. Nobody has asked them to try to lose.

 

[Brown Notes]

If this team wins 3 playoff games this argument will become absurd on the other side.

 

[pkmag2]

Shall be rather amusing if the spurs miss out on the top seed in the west by 1/2 game.

 

[Scorpjazz]

I don't dismiss the value of playoff experience, but for THIS team in it's CURRENT situation, upgrading our roster is the greater benefit, and it's not really close. People forget things like when we traded Giricek + pick for Korver. Keeping the pick can help us upgrade our roster, and it doesn't mean we have to add another rookie.




Not surprised by this in the least. I'd say 90% of fans who want playoffs over keeping our pick, just flat out don't really understand the whole situation. I'm not trying to insult anyone, I just don't think most fans really follow everything that closely that they can make an informed opinion. The other 10% are people who know they're wrong, but they want the playoffs so bad, they let their hearts do the thinking for them instead of their brain. There's nothing wrong with wanting playoffs, but the arguments of playoffs being more valuable than assets just doesn't fly.

That's why everyone making that argument goes out of their way to downplay the value of the pick, by saying things like we don't need more rookies, when that clearly isn't the only possibility when using it.

Using both picks to trade up, or using one of them in a trade for another vet are definite possibilties. If we can make a move like this, I think we definitely have a chance to win enough games next year to get HC in the first round. That's the only way this team gets to the second round, as we are a pretty crappy road team. If we make the playoffs this year, I think there's a good chance our FO sticks with the idea of keeping our current roster, and just trying to build on it. IMO, that puts us in the likely position of being in pretty much the same spot next year. Borderline playoff team, that even if we make the playoffs, we're nothing more than and automatic 1st round exit.

I totally understand your side of this, and you make a very good case. In fact I am slowly warming up to the possibility of your side winning.
However, to flat out state that people who feel as I are either ignorant or know we are wrong is silly. In either case, even if I were being led by my heart (and not my head) to want the playoffs, I kind of feel that is what being a fan is about, IMO. I am NOT the Gm, I own no stock in the team other than decades of time and a little money here and there and emotional investment. I like seeing the team win, plain and simple. Now. I might not be here next year, the team might not be. I am not interested in a 5 year plan more than winning now. I totally see your side, like I said. I just approach being a fan from a diferent view point at this stage.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

Trying to tank in order to get the worst lottery pick, and a 1.8% chance to move up into the top three... is stupid. Hell, they're trying to win now, and they probably won't make the playoffs anyway. Why is tanking necessary?

 

[Dr. Jones]

It's amazing how there seems to be a strong line drawn between those that want the playoffs and those that want the pick. I agree with ^^^. I am NOT for tanking, I would never want to lose on purpose .. that disgusts me. However, between making the playoffs this year and a likely early exit and getting a pick, I'd rather have the pick. That does not make me a pro-tanker. Anyone that believes it does is simply small-minded/short-sighted.

 

[Deleted member 365]

Trying to tank in order to get the worst lottery pick, and a 1.8% chance to move up into the top three... is stupid. Hell, they're trying to win now, and they probably won't make the playoffs anyway. Why is tanking necessary?

For at least the 10000000000000000000th time in this thread,

NO ONE IS SUGGESTING WE TANK ON PURPOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO ONE IS SUGGESTING WE EVEN TANK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE WANT A LOTTO PICK MORE THAN LOSING OUT ON THIS ENTIRE DRAFT AND BEING SWEPT IN THE 1ST ROUND.

Hell people, read the damn thread before you open up your asses and post. Sheesh!

Is it really that hard to read rustbucket??? Seriously dude, really?

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

I realize you all think this is the greatest draft ever, but I'll give you this list of past 14th picks anyway.

2011: Marcus Morris, HOU (we'll see if he even gets off the bench tonight)
2010: Patrick Patterson, HOU (same)
2009: Earl Clark, PHX (out of the league?)
2008: Anthony Randolph, GSW
2007: Al Thornton, LAC (out of the league?)
2006: Ronnie Brewer, UTA
2005: Rashad McCants, MIN (out of the league)
2004: Kris Humphries, UTA (if we could draft a guy this good, this year, he'll be able to contribute by 2018)
2003: Luke Ridnour, SEA
2002: Fred Jones, IND

Obviously the future of our team hangs in the balance with this pick.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

I want this team to lose

How is this different from tanking?

 

[Deleted member 365]

How is this different from tanking?

We've been over this for at least 5 pages. Read them through. Stop being annoying and playing dumb. Try posts 97-98, they basically summarize up everything.