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Fiscal responsibility: suppose the govt "doesn't spend money it doesn't have."

PKM said:
In my opinion, most of all the waste is due to corruption, so I agree. There is of course many, many that just don't give a damn enough to watch the dollars, but I believe there is usually at least something mildly sinister behind most of it. Not conspiracy-like, just abusive..
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PKM said:
Do I think that was a fair assessment? Holy hell, of course not. Do I think there is vast waste that could be wildly improved upon .. mountains of it.
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all due respect, but it is really easy to say this kind of stuff. Especially today, when these kinds of phrases just roll off the tongue with mysterious ease.

It gets a lot harder to say this stuff if you clarify what counts as "money well spent," or justify expenditures that don't have clear bottom-dollar illustrations of value (and there are certainly many of these).

I'd be very curious to hear you open up a can of specific-whoop-*** on these kinds of details.
 
NAOS said:
all due respect, but it is really easy to say this kind of stuff. Especially today, when these kinds of phrases just roll off the tongue with mysterious ease.

It gets a lot harder to say this stuff if you clarify what counts as "money well spent," or justify expenditures that don't have clear bottom-dollar illustrations of value (and there are certainly many of these).

I'd be very curious to hear you open up a can of specific-whoop-*** on these kinds of details.
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I've been clear on this before, but I am not debating the merits of any particular program, yet. Let's just assume, for a moment, that ALL gov't funded programs are wise decisions (couldn't we all agree that that is a stretch??). I'm talking about what the government spends to get these programs off the ground and funded. The lack of accountability of those receiving the funds (are we getting our returns, whether it be information or whatever), how much do the multi-layers of unnecessary bureaucracy cost us in real dollars? How could we have better spent the 'extra?'

Some day soon I'll provide a dozen or so examples, real ones .. until then, just like you may find it silly that I think there is tons of wasted monies being spent, I think it is equally ridiculous to suggest there isn't.
 
PKM said:
Some day soon I'll provide a dozen or so examples, real ones .. until then, just like you may find it silly that I think there is tons of wasted monies being spent, I think it is equally ridiculous to suggest there isn't.
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I agree you'll be able to find a lot a waste. The bigger the organization (public or private), the more waste you will find, and nothing is bigger than the US governemnt.
 
PKM said:
I've been clear on this before, but I am not debating the merits of any particular program, yet. Let's just assume, for a moment, that ALL gov't funded programs are wise decisions (couldn't we all agree that that is a stretch??). I'm talking about what the government spends to get these programs off the ground and funded. The lack of accountability of those receiving the funds (are we getting our returns, whether it be information or whatever), how much do the multi-layers of unnecessary bureaucracy cost us in real dollars? How could we have better spent the 'extra?'

Some day soon I'll provide a dozen or so examples, real ones .. until then, just like you may find it silly that I think there is tons of wasted monies being spent, I think it is equally ridiculous to suggest there isn't.
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I don't think it is silly. I'm sure you can find heaps of examples to prove your point. And, I'm sure those examples will genuinely irritate me.

But, there is no way around it: your position has become a kind of mantra in our society.... so much so that it has become impossible to disprove. This is dangerous because it casts the State as a bad guy through-and-through, and masks the history of sovereign debt and State spending in the context of the Cold War (a history that we should understand).
 
One Brow said:
I agree you'll be able to find a lot a waste. The bigger the organization (public or private), the more waste you will find, and nothing is bigger than the US governemnt.
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Cool. Contrary to what most believe, there ARE ways to be more efficient. When I took over a SrExec role for one of the largest corps in America, I cut costs over 285 business units (cities/offices) by 17.5% while maintaining 100% of the revenue and it was sustainable for a decade thereafter.

The business I bought into here in Utah is now doing 126% of the revenues it was doing pre-me .. yet I cut costs by 70% .. yes, 70%.

I'm a huge believer in effeciency and not at all a believer you're doing anyone any good by artificially spending money.
 
PKM said:
Cool. Contrary to what most believe, there ARE ways to be more efficient. When I took over a SrExec role for one of the largest corps in America, I cut costs over 285 business units (cities/offices) by 17.5% while maintaining 100% of the revenue and it was sustainable for a decade thereafter.
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So, we agree that private businesses get inefficient as well, meaning that it's not whether an undertaking is private or public, it's about who's running it and what they are paying attention to.
 
PKM said:
The business I bought into here in Utah is now doing 126% of the revenues it was doing pre-me .. yet I cut costs by 70% .. yes, 70%.
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Curious, what were some of the things you did to cut costs so drastically? If your at liberty to discuss these things, that is.
 
Why can't you all see that comparing the government to a business flies in the face of the history of government spending? In other words, why can't you see how it is an historically inaccurate comparison?

I think I see what One Brow is doing... he's exploding the paradigm from within. Bravo. I just refuse to let the negotiations start on those terms.
 
NAOS said:
I don't think it is silly. I'm sure you can find heaps of examples to prove your point. And, I'm sure those examples will genuinely irritate me.

But, there is no way around it: your position has become a kind of mantra in our society.... so much so that it has become impossible to disprove. This is dangerous because it casts the State as a bad guy through-and-through, and masks the history of sovereign debt and State spending in the context of the Cold War (a history that we should understand).
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That is not my intention nor do I care to be associated as a group. I am only attempting to find real solutions to problems. Not being cute, at all, I just believe we can do better.
 
One Brow said:
So, we agree that private businesses get inefficient as well, meaning that it's not whether an undertaking is private or public, it's about who's running it and what they are paying attention to.
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Is a public sector person ever in fear for their job based on efficiency? In fact they must find ways to spend the budget they have so they won't lose it the next year.
 
PearlWatson said:
Is a public sector person ever in fear for their job based on efficiency? In fact they must find ways to spend the budget they have so they won't lose it the next year.
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Parking attendants who write chicken sh** tickets? Thing is, if it involves taking your money, they're really efficient.
 
Stoked said:
In a lot more than you would think.
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Really? How many would I think, and what is the accurate percentage? On what do you base your numbers?

I've worked for divisions that carefully understaffed and made do without 11 months, and then when the twelfth month came, saw what was left and invested it. Occasionally not well, but often for genuine upgrades. Is that the behavior to which you refer?
 
PearlWatson said:
Is a public sector person ever in fear for their job based on efficiency? In fact they must find ways to spend the budget they have so they won't lose it the next year.
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Those things can be changed. That is the context in which I agreed.
 
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