Obamacare, explained.

[One Brow]

How about this for freedom: as a customer, find a professional who will provide what you desire. "Proper care" is subjective.

So, you think it's appropriate for a doctor to have to sit through a series of question about his religion, from each and every patient, so the patient can decide for themselves if the doctor can provide suitible medical care?

 

[One Brow]

I dont know what to tell you. I didnt write the bill of rights, the point is that we live in a country in which you are free to follow any religion. Thats a basic founding principle. To attack the catholic church while they provide healthcare to the disadvantaged is hardly a beneficial plan in my opinion.

Are you saying that providing healthcare to the public is a religious activity?

If the RCC wants to provide religious services, they can do it in whatever fashion they want. If they want to participate in the public sphere, they need to do it using the public rules. The reason some professions are licensed is because customers/patients have a right to expect a level of basic competency (although I'm not saying this it actuality, that's the goal). I don't think Catholics have the right to force their patients to respect Catholic beliefs.

 

[bordelais7]

So, you think it's appropriate for a doctor to have to sit through a series of question about his religion, from each and every patient, so the patient can decide for themselves if the doctor can provide suitible medical care?

Yes. You don't do any research when looking for a doctor?

 

[One Brow]

Yes. You don't do any research when looking for a doctor?

I don't research their religion. I believe in freedom of religion, and I don't think their religion is my business. I just want them to do their job, according to the standards of medical practice. If you're not willing to do that, you shouldn't be a doctor. It's like a civil engineer who doesn't believe in concrete.

 

[bordelais7]

Hire a different engineer. If it's really that egregious of an impediment to completing qualified work, I'm sure he'll be out of a job soon enough.

 

[One Brow]

Hire a different engineer. If it's really that egregious of an impediment to completing qualified work, I'm sure he'll be out of a job soon enough.

You can't fire someone based on religion. In fact, he's not obligated to tell you about his religious belief, and if you use that refusal as a criterion for hiring, you are breaking the law (not to mention he might have converted after he was hired; how often should you be allowed to repeat your questions about religion?). Besides, there are lot's of different ways to put together structures, and his are only suboptimal. Don't worry, unless you're an engineer yourself, you'll never know the difference. It's not like you have some right ot expect your engineer to use the best engineering practices, right?

 

[larryselbows]

Are you saying that providing healthcare to the public is a religious activity?

If the RCC wants to provide religious services, they can do it in whatever fashion they want. If they want to participate in the public sphere, they need to do it using the public rules. The reason some professions are licensed is because customers/patients have a right to expect a level of basic competency (although I'm not saying this it actuality, that's the goal). I don't think Catholics have the right to force their patients to respect Catholic beliefs.

I'm not saying that at all. Are you saying that Catholics should not be allowed to become doctors?

 

[Scat]

You can't fire someone based on religion. In fact, he's not obligated to tell you about his religious belief, and if you use that refusal as a criterion for hiring, you are breaking the law (not to mention he might have converted after he was hired; how often should you be allowed to repeat your questions about religion?). Besides, there are lot's of different ways to put together structures, and his are only suboptimal. Don't worry, unless you're an engineer yourself, you'll never know the difference. It's not like you have some right ot expect your engineer to use the best engineering practices, right?

You're hitting this from the wrong angle. It's not about the doctor's religion or belief, it's about a doctor willing to follow the protocols of their employer, the Catholic church. It is the church that dictates that no birth control will be prescribed to patients in its hospitals/clinics. Now if the doctor can't abide by the rules and regulations of such an employer they can be fired for misconduct, not their religion.

 

[Scat]

Sign of the times?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/blo...-companies-plan-massive-layoffs-obamacare-be/

Welch Allyn
Welch Allyn, a company that manufactures medical diagnostic equipment in central New York, announced in September that they would be laying off 275 employees, or roughly 10% of their workforce over the next three years. One of the major reasons discussed for the layoffs was a proactive response to the Medical Device Tax mandated by the new healthcare law.

Dana Holding Corp.
As recently as a week ago, a global auto parts manufacturing company in Ohio known as Dana Holding Corp., warned their employees of potential layoffs, citing "$24 million over the next six years in additional U.S. health care expenses". After laying off several white collar staffers, company insiders have hinted at more to come. The company will have to cover the additional $24 million cost somehow, which will likely equate to numerous cuts in their current workforce of 25,500 worldwide.

Stryker
One of the biggest medical device manufacturers in the world, Stryker will close their facility in Orchard Park, New York, eliminating 96 jobs in December. Worse, they plan on countering the medical device tax in Obamacare by slashing 5% of their global workforce - an estimated 1,170 positions.

Boston Scientific
In October of 2009, Boston Scientific CEO Ray Elliott, warned that proposed taxes in the health care reform bill could "lead to significant job losses" for his company. Nearly two years later, Elliott announced that the company would be cutting anywhere between 1,200 and 1,400 jobs, while simultaneously shifting investments and workers overseas - to China.

Medtronic
In March of 2010, medical device maker Medtronic warned that Obamacare taxes could result in a reduction of precisely 1,000 jobs. That plan became reality when the company cut 500 positions over the summer, with another 500 set for the end of 2013.

Others
A short list of other companies facing future layoffs at the hands of Obamacare:
Smith & Nephew - 770 layoffs
Abbott Labs - 700 layoffs
Covidien - 595 layoffs
Kinetic Concepts - 427 layoffs
St. Jude Medical - 300 layoffs
Hill Rom - 200 layoffs
Beyond the complete elimination of a significant number of American jobs is another looming problem created by the health care law - a shift from full-time to part-time workers.

 

[One Brow]

I'm not saying that at all. Are you saying that Catholics should not be allowed to become doctors?

Gosh, no. For that matter, I think Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses should be allowed to become doctors. I also think that when you agree to become a doctor, you agree to follow the best practices of the profession, to the best of your ability. If my doctor is a Christian Scientist, I expect they will still arrange any medically indicated surgeries. If my doctor is a Jehovah's Witness, I expect they will still order any medically indicated blood transfusions or products. If my doctor is a Catholic, I expect they will still perform abortions according to the standards of the profession (for example, in ectopic pregnancies).

 

[One Brow]

You're hitting this from the wrong angle. It's not about the doctor's religion or belief, it's about a doctor willing to follow the protocols of their employer, the Catholic church. It is the church that dictates that no birth control will be prescribed to patients in its hospitals/clinics. Now if the doctor can't abide by the rules and regulations of such an employer they can be fired for misconduct, not their religion.

My criticism there would be directed at the hospital, which has agreed to to be publically licensed, for failing to follow standard medical practice.

As for the doctor in that particular situation, I agree their hands are tied. I even understand that they might not be able to find a better employer. However, it seems unlike you to say the doctor should not quit. Usually, you are much more about personal responsibility.

 

[One Brow]

Sign of the times?

Were these just extra workers? Are these businesses just choosing to produce less product? How much of the claim that this comes from Obamacare is expediency vs. reality?

 

[PearlWatson]

Leave it to One Brow to take the conversation about conscientious objectors within the medical field into the ridiculous realm.

I think Catholics deserve to provide the feminazi wish list in their Obamacare forced insurance plans. Catholic Bishops supported Obamacare to begin with. They should have to live the consequences of the totalitarian regime they helped force onto the rest of us.

 

[One Brow]

Leave it to One Brow to take the conversation about conscientious objectors within the medical field into the ridiculous realm.

I am completely unsurprised you responded with mischaracterization and dismissal, as opposed to anything substantive, cogent, or on-point.

 

[DutchJazzer]

"the pill" is super cheap. Like cheaper than ibuprofen and several orders of magnitude cheaper than pregnancy and child birth.

i'm paying a total of 260 euros a month
i have a healthy lifestyle i went to the doctor twice in 8 years.
my girfriend a lil more.
so the least they could do is front us the pill(about 20 euros a months suplies)

 

[The Thriller]

Boy.

Sounds like Obamacare really sucks.

We should go back to the old system. It was cheap, working a lot better, and included everyone, right?

 

[larryselbows]

Gosh, no. For that matter, I think Christian Scientists and Jehovah's Witnesses should be allowed to become doctors. I also think that when you agree to become a doctor, you agree to follow the best practices of the profession, to the best of your ability. If my doctor is a Christian Scientist, I expect they will still arrange any medically indicated surgeries. If my doctor is a Jehovah's Witness, I expect they will still order any medically indicated blood transfusions or products. If my doctor is a Catholic, I expect they will still perform abortions according to the standards of the profession (for example, in ectopic pregnancies).

You see, your perspective comes completely from a utilitarian point of view. Do we live in a country in which you are free to follow your own religious doctrine? That is the only question there is in this situation. I fully understand your perspective and actually am sympathetic to it. I think it comes down to this, do you value a Utilitarian approach to healthcare or do you value personal religious freedoms? In this situation there is no in-between, rather a choice of either option and obviously there are going to those of us that disagree with one another on it. All I'm saying is that it's a violation of the first amendment - pure and simple.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_first_amendment

 

[Revolution 9]

I want us to have European heath care. Most jobs are required to have it, and everyone is covered if they don't have it.
We need to build liveable wages, and incomes. Jobs that require health care provide workers who need less government assistance.
If you are going to work for someone, and are working the most hours they will give you health care should be provided.

 

[DutchJazzer]

I want us to have European heath care. Most jobs are required to have it, and everyone is covered if they don't have it.
We need to build liveable wages, and incomes. Jobs that require health care provide workers who need less government assistance.
If you are going to work for someone, and are working the most hours they will give you health care should be provided.

I live in europe and i'd rather not have mandatory healthcare

 

[Scat]

Darden Restaurants (Red Lobster, Olive Garden) has already said that they will take steps to reduce employee overhead to avoid Obamacare penalties. Now White Castle, Papa John's and Applebee's are taking similar steps.