Are you guys completely cool with your kids dating/marrying someone of a different race?

[Stoked]

Really? Can you offer a few reasons to accept that, besides your p[roclamation, reasons that would be different from those offered by, say, the Catholics or JWs?

Take Jazzspazz's and Bronco's posts as evidence. There are a multitude of talks about the importance of women, the all important role they play and so on in Mormon history. If you truly wanted to know than go read the words of those that are leading, or once lead, the church.

 

[One Brow]

Or perhaps you are playing word games when others simply are not.

It would have been more useful to explain my error than complain about what you think my goal is.

 

[Stoked]

So, just to be clear, Mormons are told that the man is not the head of the household? Or, is it that marriages need to be equal, with men in charge?

RCC priests and JW elders also undertake a lot of extra work for no pay (many priests engage in vows of poverty), yet that has not prevented/blunted misogyny in those groups. So, your second comment doesn't really offer much evidence.

Bingo. My sister, her husband and kids are very religious. She the head of that household. Just the way their dynamic works. I can think of many similar examples.

 

[One Brow]

Take Jazzspazz's and Bronco's posts as evidence. There are a multitude of talks about the importance of women, the all important role they play and so on in Mormon history. If you truly wanted to know than go read the words of those that are leading, or once lead, the church.

Are you under the impression that there is no similar dialogue among Catholics and JWs about the importance of women, how valuable their opinions can be, etc.? Do you really think their churches put up sings about being women-haters? Do it occur to you that the culture supported and propagated by an organization might not always mesh with certain aspects of what it says? Why do you think that doing what almost every other major religion in the US does makes you different from every other religion in the US?

 

[Stoked]

It would have been more useful to explain my error than complain about what you think my goal is.

Your error is simple and obvious. You are trying to find hidden meaning when there is none. Take me for example, I am fairly plain spoken. I do not get fancy with my choice of words. In our debates you try to pick apart what I am saying instead of taking it at face value. My posts are failry clear and usually straight to the point.

 

[One Brow]

Bingo. My sister, her husband and kids are very religious. She the head of that household. Just the way their dynamic works. I can think of many similar examples.

So, your sisters bishop has told your sister and her husband that your sister should be in charge? Or, was that just a non sequitur?

 

[Stoked]

Are you under the impression that there is no similar dialogue among Catholics and JWs about the importance of women, how valuable their opinions can be, etc.? Do you really think their churches put up sings about being women-haters? Do it occur to you that the culture supported and propagated by an organization might not always mesh with certain aspects of what it says? Why do you think that doing what almost every other major religion in the US does makes you different from every other religion in the US?

I am not Catholic or JW, nor were we talking about them. This was about the Mormon culture. If I wanted to know abouth those two reigions I would go to them and ask and observe.

 

[Stoked]

So, your sisters bishop has told your sister and her husband that your sister should be in charge? Or, was that just a non sequitur?

It was a decision between them that the Bishop never got involved in. Not his place.

 

[Zulu]

@ OP.... I changed my mind, I would be cool with it!!!

 

[One Brow]

Your error is simple and obvious. You are trying to find hidden meaning when there is none. Take me for example, I am fairly plain spoken. I do not get fancy with my choice of words. In our debates you try to pick apart what I am saying instead of taking it at face value. My posts are failry clear and usually straight to the point.

Everything you say is affected by who you grew up with, the meanings of the words they used, etc. They are fairly clear and straightforward within those cultural assumptions. Cultural assumptions are not hidden meanings in the usual sense, but they do exist. I am questioning the cultural assumptions behind them.

So, since you endorsed JazzSpazz's post so enthusiastically, let me post these questions to you:

When a man refers to another man as being a "*****" or a "high-school girl", is your first reaction that they just played that man a high compliment? Are you saying that we should all be ******* and act like high-school girls? Do you tell your son to "woman up", "face it like a woman", or "grow some breasts"?

 

[One Brow]

I am not Catholic or JW, nor were we talking about them. This was about the Mormon culture. If I wanted to know abouth those two reigions I would go to them and ask and observe.

You made the claim Mormon culture was not comparable, not I. I'm just asking what the difference would be.

 

[One Brow]

It was a decision between them that the Bishop never got involved in. Not his place.

So, it didn't really have much bearing on Bronco70's post about what he heard in church. OK.

 

[Stoked]

Everything you say is affected by who you grew up with, the meanings of the words they used, etc. They are fairly clear and straightforward within those cultural assumptions. Cultural assumptions are not hidden meanings in the usual sense, but they do exist. I am questioning the cultural assumptions behind them.

So, since you endorsed JazzSpazz's post so enthusiastically, let me post these questions to you:

When a man refers to another man as being a "*****" or a "high-school girl", is your first reaction that they just played that man a high compliment? Are you saying that we should all be ******* and act like high-school girls? Do you tell your son to "woman up", "face it like a woman", or "grow some breasts"?

In my case that is a fairly wide group with greatly varying morals. I have lived in S. Utah, SLC area, Seattle, LA, Denver, Memphis and Honduras. From very religious people to stoners and alcoholics. I have a very convoluted life history filled with all kinds of people with all kinds of views. I am far from the sheltered Mormon.

 

[Bronco70]

...your second comment doesn't really offer much evidence.

I wasn't attempting to offer any evidence. I merely made a statement about my own perception of that part of the discussion. I thought the way I worded it made it pretty clear.

 

[Stoked]

So, it didn't really have much bearing on Bronco70's post about what he heard in church. OK.

But is shows you that the Mormon culture is not what you wish to see it as. Again you will see what you want and dismiss anything that is contrary to that. That is fine but I simply do not agree. I base this off a much more personal and life long exposure than you have. You want to say that blinds me than so be it. In reality it informs me.

 

[Stoked]

Everything you say is affected by who you grew up with, the meanings of the words they used, etc. They are fairly clear and straightforward within those cultural assumptions. Cultural assumptions are not hidden meanings in the usual sense, but they do exist. I am questioning the cultural assumptions behind them.

So, since you endorsed JazzSpazz's post so enthusiastically, let me post these questions to you:

When a man refers to another man as being a "*****" or a "high-school girl", is your first reaction that they just played that man a high compliment? Are you saying that we should all be ******* and act like high-school girls? Do you tell your son to "woman up", "face it like a woman", or "grow some breasts"?

I don't have any sons. I am an all girl/woman household.

 

[One Brow]

I wasn't attempting to offer any evidence. I merely made a statement about my own perception of that part of the discussion. I thought the way I worded it made it pretty clear.

Could you answer the question I asked about it?

 

[Stoked]

You made the claim Mormon culture was not comparable, not I. I'm just asking what the difference would be.

Please show where I made the claimt hat the Mormon Church is or is not comprable to the Catholics or JWs. I may contest your claims on the Mormon culture but I stray from those two cultures as I am uninformed.

 

[Bronco70]

So, just to be clear, Mormons are told that the man is not the head of the household? Or, is it that marriages need to be equal, with men in charge?

We are told that all women are to be respected and cherished. As far as "being in charge"... what does that mean? In my marriage, no one person holds the final say in any given situation. I think you're projecting your perceptions here.

 

[One Brow]

But is shows you that the Mormon culture is not what you wish to see it as.

Why? Are you under the impression that I think no Mormon woman would ever be allowed to make household decisions?

You want to say that blinds me than so be it. In reality it informs me.

Why not both?