Are you guys completely cool with your kids dating/marrying someone of a different race?

[One Brow]

I wasn't attempting to offer any evidence. I merely made a statement about my own perception of that part of the discussion. I thought the way I worded it made it pretty clear.

Could you answer the question I asked about it?

 

[Stoked]

You made the claim Mormon culture was not comparable, not I. I'm just asking what the difference would be.

Please show where I made the claimt hat the Mormon Church is or is not comprable to the Catholics or JWs. I may contest your claims on the Mormon culture but I stray from those two cultures as I am uninformed.

 

[Bronco70]

So, just to be clear, Mormons are told that the man is not the head of the household? Or, is it that marriages need to be equal, with men in charge?

We are told that all women are to be respected and cherished. As far as "being in charge"... what does that mean? In my marriage, no one person holds the final say in any given situation. I think you're projecting your perceptions here.

 

[One Brow]

But is shows you that the Mormon culture is not what you wish to see it as.

Why? Are you under the impression that I think no Mormon woman would ever be allowed to make household decisions?

You want to say that blinds me than so be it. In reality it informs me.

Why not both?

 

[Stoked]

Why? Are you under the impression that I think no Mormon woman would ever be allowed to make household decisions?



Why not both?

You are under the impression that the Mormon religion has a lesser view of women and places them under the man.

Because I can see what the problems are. Why? Because I understand what Mormons really are. Sexism or mysogony are not on the list (generally speaking as I am sure that some individual members are. That is who they are as a person not a religion).

 

[One Brow]

I don't have any sons. I am an all girl/woman household.

Right, that prevents you from answering the questions. Of course. I mean, you could have answers about what you would say to a nephew or a cousin, or you could have answered hypothetically, but that would violate some principle, right?

Please show where I made the claimt hat the Mormon Church is or is not comprable to the Catholics or JWs. I may contest your claims on the Mormon culture but I stray from those two cultures as I am uninformed.

https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php...different-race&p=518472&viewfull=1#post518472

You even bolded that part.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

My first question is, if you think women really closer to God than men, than when a man refers to another man as being a "*****" or a "high-school girl", is your first reaction that they just played that man a high compliment? Are you saying that we should all be ******* and act like high-school girls? Do you tell you son to "woman up", "face it like a woman", or "grow some breasts"?

Secondly, if the Priesthood is composed of those who are further from God, why do the leaders of the congregation come from it? Why would you not want the leaders of your household and congregation to be the people closest to God?

The sentiments you express are certainly lovely, and very similar what I hear from other religious groups, some of whom I know much better than Mormons. In those various groups, they form a rationalization for denying the misogyny. This seems to be another example of the pedestal in action. As long as the woman stays on her small pedestal, she is to be worshiped, but when he steps down, she is to be condemned, while men are so weak that their bad behaviors are more generally excused or glossed over. Maybe it doesn't work that way with Mormons, but so far I have seen any indication that things are different.

This is exactly what I was talking about in the beginning of posting on this subject. You refuse to understand another point of view and it seems to me you have an agenda here.

You are confusing the doctrines and organization of the LDS Church with the weaknesses of men... if in fact they say those sorts of things you use as an example. I have never said any of those things, and probably never will. Can you find anything in the church teachings that say men should say things like that? I would recommend you stop equating what some men do to what the LDS Church teaches or is.

Secondly there are multiple ways to be close to God, and I believe you are again purposefully misunderstanding what I say. I never did say that women are closer to God than Men, but again you will see what you want to see.

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt that you would try to engage the conversation and at least give it an effort to truly understand another point of view, but I'm not seeing anything. I see the same twisting of words, and agenda driven poking and prodding trying to prove you are a genius, right, and the most objective man in the world. Just my opinion. I'm done, but wish you well. Spin on.

 

[One Brow]

You are under the impression that the Mormon religion has a lesser view of women and places them under the man.

Which prevents the occasional outlier in what fashion?

Because I can see what the problems are. Why? Because I understand what Mormons really are. Sexism or mysogony are not on the list (generally speaking as I am sure that some individual members are. That is who they are as a person not a religion).

They are enough on the list that you couldn't bother to repudiate blatantly misogynistic language, instead you dodged with 'no son here'. I don't see any reason to think it's less on the list than for any other religious group.

 

[One Brow]

We are told that all women are to be respected and cherished. As far as "being in charge"... what does that mean? In my marriage, no one person holds the final say in any given situation. I think you're projecting your perceptions here.

For a person who brought up what they were told in their church, you are curiously unwilling to clarify what you were told in the church on that subject.

 

[Bronco70]

For a person who brought up what they were told in their church, you are curiously unwilling to clarify what you were told in the church on that subject.

Straw Bronco70 can be pretty vague and evasive. He's kind of a douche.

 

[One Brow]

... if in fact they say those sorts of things you use as an example. I have never said any of those things, and probably never will.

That is highly commendable. Do you also go the extra mile, and repudiate those who do, or do you passively allow it?

Can you find anything in the church teachings that say men should say things like that?

You won't find any Catholic teaching that say it's OK to insult men by comparing them to women, nor JW teachings like that. Yet, misogyny is rife in both groups. So, the absence of such a teaching is not evidence of the absence of misogyny.

Perhaps you can show me some teaching where it says you should not insult men by comparing them to women?

I would recommend you stop equating what some men do to what the LDS Church teaches or is.

A religion is just as much the culture of it's adherents as its official dogma, probably more so.

Secondly there are multiple ways to be close to God, and I believe you are again purposefully misunderstanding what I say. I never did say that women are closer to God than Men, but again you will see what you want to see.

When I read, "that women do not need it as they already share with God in creation and have a bond or link with Him that cannot be obtained by men", and I didn't see you mention there there is some different link men can have and women can not, I concluded that you men the nature of the available links was unequal. Perhaps I was too hasty. Do you think men have some sort of link with God not attainable by women, that is a counterbalance to their link in creation (birthing, I presume, perhaps in error). What is the nature of that link?

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt that you would try to engage the conversation and at least give it an effort to truly understand another point of view, but I'm not seeing anything.

No offense intended, but I saw very little that has not been used as a rationalization for misogyny within other religions. I can appreciate that every person thinks their religion is special and sacred. It's hard to face when that specialness doesn't seem to be viewed or appreciated by others.

Edit to add: having been a Catholic and a nearly joined the JWs, I do have personal experience with 1) the feelings I describe in the last paragraph, and 2) believing in the lofty depictions you offered. You think I don't understand, but I have actually had very similar thought to what you offer, and I remember what it was like to have them.

 

[One Brow]

Straw Bronco70 can be pretty vague and evasive. He's kind of a douche.

My apologies. You actually said "conference talk", not church, and I should have been more careful about where you had heard things.

So, just to be clear, at the conference talk you referred to, you were told that the man is not the head of the household? Or, is it that marriages need to be equal, with men in charge?