Are you guys completely cool with your kids dating/marrying someone of a different race?

[Jazz Spazz]

That is highly commendable. Do you also go the extra mile, and repudiate those who do, or do you passively allow it?



You won't find any Catholic teaching that say it's OK to insult men by comparing them to women, nor JW teachings like that. Yet, misogyny is rife in both groups. So, the absence of such a teaching is not evidence of the absence of misogyny.

Perhaps you can show me some teaching where it says you should not insult men by comparing them to women?



A religion is just as much the culture of it's adherents as its official dogma, probably more so.





When I read, "that women do not need it as they already share with God in creation and have a bond or link with Him that cannot be obtained by men", and I didn't see you mention there there is some different link men can have and women can not, I concluded that you men the nature of the available links was unequal. Perhaps I was too hasty. Do you think men have some sort of link with God not attainable by women, that is a counterbalance to their link in creation (birthing, I presume, perhaps in error). What is the nature of that link?



No offense intended, but I saw very little that has not been used as a rationalization for misogyny within other religions. I can appreciate that every person thinks their religion is special and sacred. It's hard to face when that specialness doesn't seem to be viewed or appreciated by others.

Edit to add: having been a Catholic and a nearly joined the JWs, I do have personal experience with 1) the feelings I describe in the last paragraph, and 2) believing in the lofty depictions you offered. You think I don't understand, but I have actually had very similar thought to what you offer, and I remember what it was like to have them.

Not really... you argued points with no understanding intended.

I gave you the option, but you gave it a really poor effort that was nowhere close and then continued to argue more points.

I don't care if you think my religion is special or sacred as it is to me, was just giving you a chance to clear up your misunderstanding. Now that you have passed on that opportunity I will just view your words as intentional lies. Ignorance is no excuse to say untrue things, especially intentional ignorance.

Like I said before, spin on.

Please do not respond to this post... I will not respond after this... really this time.

 

[Bronco70]

My apologies. You actually said "conference talk", not church, and I should have been more careful about where you had heard things.

So, just to be clear, at the conference talk you referred to, you were told that the man is not the head of the household? Or, is it that marriages need to be equal, with men in charge?

C'mon Brow... you know I'm just ****ing with you, right?

But the answer to your question is, neither. I have never been taught specifically that men are not head of the household. Likewise, I have never been taught specifically that women are not head of the household. I think that distinction exists in most people's minds because of an ingrained need to organize. Like I said, I am a practicing mormon, and my wife and I run the joint 50/50. I have been taught that I am responsible for my family, not because I am the only one who can be, but because I need to have that responsibility to learn and grow. My wife is taught the same way.

You haven't answered my question of what you mean when you say "the man is in charge". Does this mean all final decisions rest with him? Or that all activity must be cleared through him? Or that he directs the minutia of the household? You need to expand a little bit so I know what you're trying to trap me with.

The problem is, you have an almost comically broad definition of misogyny (and racism, and sexism, etc., etc., etc.) That's great for you. Ultimately, whether or not you consider me misogynist is of no consequence to me. How my wife and my children view me is of great importance, and I'm pretty confident they would disagree you with completely. So, in that respect, I feel pretty good.

 

[Scat]

I don't have any sons. I am an all girl/woman household.

As am I. I would argue that Stoked and I likely have empowered our daughters to a great extent. A couple weeks ago my 19 year old was at a dance club. Some guy kept harassing her and she kept telling him to go away. He eventually grabbed her and pushed her up against the wall. For his troubles he received a head butt accompanied by a broken nose and a foot to the groin. I had to leave the house at 1:30 in the morning to go pick her up. She thought I'd be pissed as hell for making me leave the house that time of night. I told her I couldn't be more proud. I've always taught them that if you think things are going south, hit hard and ask questions later. That's exactly what she did.

The guy that got his *** kicked wanted to press charges. Fortunately a security camera caught the entire incidence as well as several witnesses that watched it go down.

 

[Hartsock]

As am I. I would argue that Stoked and I likely have empowered our daughters to a great extent. A couple weeks ago my 19 year old was at a dance club. Some guy kept harassing her and she kept telling him to go away. He eventually grabbed her and pushed her up against the wall. For his troubles he received a head butt accompanied by a broken nose and a foot to the groin. I had to leave the house at 1:30 in the morning to go pick her up. She thought I'd be pissed as hell for making me leave the house that time of night. I told her I couldn't be more proud. I've always taught them that if you think things are going south, hit hard and ask questions later. That's exactly what she did.

The guy that got his *** kicked wanted to press charges. Fortunately a security camera caught the entire incidence as well as several witnesses that watched it go down.

How demoralizing would it be to stand before a judge and tell them you got your *** kicked by a girl?

 

[Scat]

How demoralizing would it be to stand before a judge and tell them you got your *** kicked by a girl?

I'm trying to decide if you're trolling OB or being serious...

 

[Stoked]

Right, that prevents you from answering the questions. Of course. I mean, you could have answers about what you would say to a nephew or a cousin, or you could have answered hypothetically, but that would violate some principle, right?



https://jazzfanz.com/showthread.php...different-race&p=518472&viewfull=1#post518472

You even bolded that part.

Congrats. You linked to something where I am bolding a part of your reply that deals with Mormons and addressing that portion of it. Never got into Catholics or JWs.

 

[Stoked]

Which prevents the occasional outlier in what fashion?



They are enough on the list that you couldn't bother to repudiate blatantly misogynistic language, instead you dodged with 'no son here'. I don't see any reason to think it's less on the list than for any other religious group.

Would I tell a son to "woman up"? No, of course not. But I do not tell my daughters to "man up".

 

[The Black Swordsman]

Oh my this thread grew really fast. Also it always baffles me that atheists argue about the supposed lack of morality in religions when in their worldview there is no such basis of objective morality so it is a self defeating argument.

 

[silesian]

1) If you don't interpret a phrase like "narrows the scope" to indicate focusing on a subset, then what does that phrase mean to you?
2) Both are true, and what I have read reflects both. Not all sexism is misogyny, but where sexism exists, misogyny will also be present. They are not contradictory, nor even contrary.

Okay, it seems you have narrowed the scope by creating subsets of sexism into misogyny and misandry.

There are subsets are hostile sexism (misogyny/ misandry) and benevolent sexism (my example of “boys don’t do dishes”). This is both the case in common usage and in academic research, and yes, if you believe that sexism always involves hatred, I think this is inconsistent with both.

Maybe we should just agree to disagree.

 

[silesian]

it always baffles me that atheists argue about the supposed lack of morality in religions when in their worldview there is no such basis of objective morality so it is a self defeating argument.

Most atheists do not in fact have that world view (no objective morality without God). I'm a Unitarian and know A LOT of atheists

https://usatoday30.usatoday.com/new...-31-atheism-morality-evolution-religion_n.htm

Or, if you really want to go deep, read up on Kant's categorical imperative.

 

[Stoked]

How demoralizing would it be to stand before a judge and tell them you got your *** kicked by a girl?

My 5 year old will more than likely make more than 1 guy end up doing that. She beat a 10 year olds butt this weekend. Slapped the girl to the ground with one shot then pinned her there till she have up. She even pulled a nifty little scissor lock to her head. She has also blackened my eye and bloodied her older sisters nose a couple times.

 

[Stoked]

As am I. I would argue that Stoked and I likely have empowered our daughters to a great extent. A couple weeks ago my 19 year old was at a dance club. Some guy kept harassing her and she kept telling him to go away. He eventually grabbed her and pushed her up against the wall. For his troubles he received a head butt accompanied by a broken nose and a foot to the groin. I had to leave the house at 1:30 in the morning to go pick her up. She thought I'd be pissed as hell for making me leave the house that time of night. I told her I couldn't be more proud. I've always taught them that if you think things are going south, hit hard and ask questions later. That's exactly what she did.

The guy that got his *** kicked wanted to press charges. Fortunately a security camera caught the entire incidence as well as several witnesses that watched it go down.

Damn right. Good on her and you for teaching her self respect, independence and the ability to protect both.