Hartsock
Banned
A bunch of bitches
Are you guys completely cool with your kids dating/marrying someone of a different race?
- Thread starter Sandy Braille
- Start date
A bunch of bitches
IIRC, at least one of them was raised Mormon. However, more to the point, if you're saying that it would only take two hours a day collecting examples from practicing Mormons, that's not really much of a defense.
I'm already humor-deficient, remember? It shouldn't be a surprise I'm sadness-deficient, as well.
Maybe you should take a B-12 shot. If you cannot show humor or sadness than you are limiting yourself to a very narrow emotional range.
I love you too, cupcake.
I'm saying that you collecting data from a fairly non-mormon group is no way to collect examples of anything Mormon related.
As for being raised Mormon, well great. Are they active and part of the Mormon culture? They can be two very different things.
You using JazzFanz as a control group for Mormon culture is laughable.
Okay, I'll try again.
Because I feel that anything other than perfect equality between men and women is a downgrade to one or the other, anything that men are allowed do that women do not do must be a slight to the women, and anything that women do that men are not allowed to do must also be a slight to the women. Because of this inequality there must be some form of contempt, hatred, mistrust, or prejudice in that culture against women, which is by my definition misogyny.
I'm not sure that changes things but let me know if that is a bit closer?
I'm also not sure exactly which LDS leadership roles you are having an issue with. Is it just basically the Bishoprics, Stake Presidencies, Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, First Presidency etc... that you have an issue with women not "being allowed" to be a part of? This has nothing to do with the General Relief Society Presidency, General Young Women's Presidency, General Primary Presidency, Stake RS, YW, or Primary Presidencies, or ward level RS, YW, or Primary presidencies that all sit in council with the other leaders of the church at those levels?
Here is a quote that gives direction that I think is applicable as an example of the LDS contempt towards women.
Not at all. Many men cry often, and plenty of women do not. The emotional nature of men or women has nothing to do with this.
You can understand a persons viewpoint better if you go way back to their most fundamental beliefs and go from there.
Way back to who I believe God is. I believe he is my spirit Father. I believe I, and all of us are his spirit children on this earth.
I believe that "Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose."
I believe that we all have a purpose for being on this earth.
I believe that God has organized/created this earth, and that he has organized other things that are for our benefit and learning.
I believe that there is an actual Priesthood of God on the earth where men can help do and organize the works of God and do this through His authority.
This is not doctrinal, but my personal belief that the Priesthood is a way for men to come as close to God as they can, but that women do not need it as they already share with God in creation and have a bond or link with Him that cannot be obtained by men. Men and Women are both special and equal, even though they both are unique and have different roles. I believe the Bible talks of a rib being taken from Adam's side to create Eve, and that she was to be a help meet to him. I believe that the rib was taken from the side symbolically to mean she would stand next to him, and the term help meet is often taken to mean helper, when it does not. It more means the other half of a whole, or the mirror opposite, or exactly corresponding to mixed with strength and the ability to rescue. I tend to think of my own wife as my other half, most of the time my better half, who can strengthen.. lift.. rescue me and who I am not complete without.
There is so much more to this than the impression that there is a negative view of women because they are not allowed to be a bishop.
This difference of opinion comes from base differences in belief or outlook on life at a much deeper level than this topic.
Only once I understand the foundation of who you are can I truly understand your point of view, and only once you understand the foundation of who I truly am can you truly understand mine.
Talking nuance waaaay down the road only enhances the differences we feel toward an issue that is down the road. We are picking and prodding at the flowers and leaves of the plant, when the roots are where the real differences are and why we think so differently.
/soapbox rant
Damn this needs to be repped and I cannot. Someone please rep this for me. Multiple people if willing.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
This one made me laugh for some reason. My first thought it perhaps a sure sign of a loser. My second thought is, "Hey, my oldest son used to dress like that." But he's off to a T14 law school next year, so perhaps on third thought, it may not be the sure sign of a loser I initially thought it was.
Regardless, one of the stupidest "fashion" trends ever, even for teenagers.
I do OK in meatspace. I was just crying at a movie last night, and have shared a few laughs with co-workers today. For some reason, it doesn't come through in text. I appreciate your concern, though. Thanks.
If I'm running a controlled experiment, I agree. Since I'm just noting that the Mormons in here are pretty much like the general sexist culture around them, that you can't distinguish based on sexism more than suffices.
Implying tone thru text is much more difficult than people think. Especially if your audience does not know you personally.
But most are not. No matter how much you wish to paint them so.
JazzSpazz,
First, I appreciate your effort. It's very kind of you to undertake it.
Yes, the second attempt is much closer. I see a little more interplay and feedback between the "allowed to" and "slight to" clauses then I read you to describe. Women are allowed to do something that men are not because they are inferior, as well as being allowed to turning into a slight. Also, the terms "allowed to" refers not to just commandments, but to cultural pressures and norms. A husband who works 40+ hours to bring home the primary income, works in the yard, repairs the house, plays balls in the church league, etc., does not have his masculinity questioned for doing some dishes and baking cake pops. The husband who stays at home, sews, forms a book circle, comments on wardrobe, etc. does get his masculinity questioned, even if there is no rule/doctrine/dogma forbidding this.
Yes, this sort of inequality always breeds prejudice, contempt, and hatred (not necessarily in each individual, but overall). It's why Mormons in this forum (just like most of the non-Mormon men) feel free to use female qualities as an insult term.
I don't have enough of an understanding of the individual culture to discuss the roles. Why should it matter, overall? Why is there any role at all that women (or men) don't qualify for?
Perhaps you don't see it, but your final paragraph is patronizing. Unless I have misunderstood, it boils down to "Sometimes woman's opinions are useful; men will be the judge of that". Do women ever get to be the final judge for the congregation?
I wish I had a nickle for every conference talk I've heard that stressed equality in a marital relationship. I defer to my wife on a regular basis. Our strengths differ, so sometimes she helps me, and sometimes I help her (what a misogynist *** I am...) Apparently, any efficiency gained by working as a team is diminished by the fact that it is always an exercise in misogyny (oppressing my wife by not allowing her to function independently).
I'm mystified how being called as a Bishop can be considered any sort of reward. Lots of extra work for no pay.
I'm mystified how being called as a Bishop can be considered any sort of reward. Lots of extra work for no pay.
Or perhaps you are playing word games when others simply are not.
My first question is, if you think women really closer to God than men, than when a man refers to another man as being a "*****" or a "high-school girl", is your first reaction that they just played that man a high compliment? Are you saying that we should all be ******* and act like high-school girls? Do you tell you son to "woman up", "face it like a woman", or "grow some breasts"?
Secondly, if the Priesthood is composed of those who are further from God, why do the leaders of the congregation come from it? Why would you not want the leaders of your household and congregation to be the people closest to God?
The sentiments you express are certainly lovely, and very similar what I hear from other religious groups, some of whom I know much better than Mormons. In those various groups, they form a rationalization for denying the misogyny. This seems to be another example of the pedestal in action. As long as the woman stays on her small pedestal, she is to be worshiped, but when he steps down, she is to be condemned, while men are so weak that their bad behaviors are more generally excused or glossed over. Maybe it doesn't work that way with Mormons, but so far I have seen any indication that things are different.
Really? Can you offer a few reasons to accept that, besides your p[roclamation, reasons that would be different from those offered by, say, the Catholics or JWs?
So, just to be clear, Mormons are told that the man is not the head of the household? Or, is it that marriages need to be equal, with men in charge?
RCC priests and JW elders also undertake a lot of extra work for no pay (many priests engage in vows of poverty), yet that has not prevented/blunted misogyny in those groups. So, your second comment doesn't really offer much evidence.