PearlWatson
Well-Known Member
There has never been a time where man has been without religion, so that doesn't make sense.
The costs of gay marriage
- Thread starter The Thriller
- Start date
There has never been a time where man has been without religion, so that doesn't make sense.
The only important issue here is that gay marriage is happening. So you better start reinterpreting whatever religious doctrines you follow so that you can pretend it never opposed the institution in the first place. You wouldn't want to be late to the party.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
There has always been a time when marriage was not controlled by religion.
7StraightIsGreat
Well-Known Member
Siromar for the win!
JGolds
Well-Known Member
Its not my kind of party...
The LDS church will not change their stance no matter the outcome.
JGolds
Well-Known Member
This is a fact..
The LDS church is going to question its involvment in boy scouts because of the gay boy scout leader stuff thats going on. I think its good that a church keeps its values.
The Black Swordsman
Well-Known Member
A gay man has the equal right to marry a woman just like a straight man does. So you cannot say that gays don't have equal rights.
If religion (or more specifically Christianity or the Abrahamic religions) is such a big influence on gay marriage how come there is not a single country in Asia allows gay marriage?
The great Hitchens on gay marriage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MrA8_rx1qg#t=36s
People are getting married less and less, (especially liberals) yet they keep crying about marriage. Gay marriage is immensely trivial. People raise awareness on this issue rather than the people dying in Africa. There are people getting tattoos of themselves, protests, etc all for gay marriage yet they are silent on the other issues.
"The bigoted defamation of an opposite opinion, rather than a willingness to listen to it or pay any attention to it. Liberal bigotry is the worst of all, as it thinks it's so enlightened."
This is all coming from someone who is in favor of allowing gays to marry.
If religion (or more specifically Christianity or the Abrahamic religions) is such a big influence on gay marriage how come there is not a single country in Asia allows gay marriage?
The great Hitchens on gay marriage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MrA8_rx1qg#t=36s
People are getting married less and less, (especially liberals) yet they keep crying about marriage. Gay marriage is immensely trivial. People raise awareness on this issue rather than the people dying in Africa. There are people getting tattoos of themselves, protests, etc all for gay marriage yet they are silent on the other issues.
"The bigoted defamation of an opposite opinion, rather than a willingness to listen to it or pay any attention to it. Liberal bigotry is the worst of all, as it thinks it's so enlightened."
This is all coming from someone who is in favor of allowing gays to marry.
Hartsock
Banned
Maybe. maybe not. I'm not convinced one way or the other.
Hartsock
Banned
What a stupid comment.
When private people/entities are being forced into business with people/entities they disagree with is it really? Go look up the people that have been sued for refusing their personal, private services to a gay couple.
That's not the right they're asking for. And the stuff about the world's troubles is irrelevant to the subject. Also, I'm glad you think we should base our morality on what random Asian countries do. I was worried there for a second that you want to impose your Islam-inspired morality on those who don't care about Islam or what it has to say about the matter.
Are you sure? Because they've changed their mind on other issues that were once accepted by the mainstream before they turned reprehensible. The LDS church won't allow itself to be seen as a fringe organization. They will conform with the mainstream.
You act as if this is none of my concern and that I should wander to some desert and stick my head in the sand and everything will be okay. Are you gay and in need of the government recognizing your union with your significant other? If not this must not be your battle either and you should just go live your life the way you see fit and stay out of it... right?
Never said I was the complete authority on morals, but there's nothing wrong with me having them and voicing concern when I see an issue. Sure there can be other good people out there with different moral codes, but the more they differ from what I believe is good and moral then I'm not going to view that as being as good as my own code, and if some other moral code in my opinion allows for things that I feel degrade what I think is good in the world I'm going to do what I can to call it out and voice my opinion.
Yes, and it makes you feel better to try to vilify my opinion by comparing it to slave owners and the KKK. You forgot to throw in serial killers, Hitler, Stalin, and communism. Just the fact that you attempt to smear my opinion and lump me how desperate you are to be right. I don't expect those with no moral values to see my opinion as "valid". You throw around the word intolerance, but I don't think it means what you think it means.
Because it's not possible to see an analogy in every day situations and apply it to bigger ideas? Wow, what a maroon. I was mocking your argument because my analogy was pretty close to what you were telling me so instead of countering the point you try to dismiss it because you are not smart enough to see the point?
Not changing anything, whether legal or not I'm not okay with it. Also not okay with plenty of other legal things people do, so if/when it happens it will just be put into the legal bucket of stuff that should not be done.
I'm not like you, I don't change what I believe because people's morals, or the laws shift.
Nice try.
Hartsock
Banned
I like what you are saying but, businesses and religions are different. A race, religion, sexual orientation are generally protected from discrimination by businesses. Religions are not, so far at least, forced to bend their principles to include everyone.
I think so. I think they want to be seen as firm in their morals and convictions. Even if they did they would not pretend that they supported it all along.
You see it as them becoming fringe and they will see it as standing for what they see as right. Keep in mind that gay marriage is largely a US fight and the Mormon church is global.
The church as a whole will find a way to continue to be law abiding citizens as long as it is not in direct opposition to doctrine.
The church will not "conform with the mainstream" despite your deep abiding hopes and dreams.
So you think it is ok for a private photographer to decline to shoot a lesbian wedding based on their religious beliefs, be sued and be forced to shoot the wedding anyway?
I do not.
I am perfectly fine with changing my opinion if it contradicts the evidence. My "opinions" are simply my best effort at understanding how things really are. I couldn't care less about mainstream views. Given that Christianity nowadays would be foreign to a Christian a century ago, who in turn would be completely alien to a Christian from the 1600s, who would be a total heretic to those in middle ages (and so on, you get my drift), I'm not so sure you can say religious "morals" are anything but whatever the zeitgeist is. Those who hold on to views that the mainstream consider deeply immoral are simply relegated to the status of a cult. I doubt Mormons would do that, as pragmatic as they are.