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I need a reality check

jazzfan1971

jazzfan1971

Well-Known Member
It -seems- like the Jazz are incapable of either drafting players or developing players.

For instance, the Jazz passed on Klay Thompson for Alec Burks. In my mind had the Jazz taken Klay and the Warriors taken Burks, that we'd all be marveling at Burks' play and Thompson would be considered a near bust rotting on our bench. Now, maybe this isn't true, maybe Thompson is just amazingly better than Burks. But, that means the Jazz draft like crap instead.

Then I look at Kosta Koufos. Guy looked full of promise by my eye his first year. Then his second year he looked like total crap. Then he goes to Denver and looks like a legit starting center in the league, beating out guys like McGee and Mozgov. So, it seems like we drafted ok with him, failed to develop him, in fact, seemed to regress under our team, then went elsewhere and excelled.

Then there was Wesley Matthews. We had a steal with him. Then we tossed him aside for Raja Bell. Sure, we saved a lot of cash, but, it was still a poor decision.

Then there was the Harris for Marvin Williams trade. In that deal we got worse talent AND worse contract. A double whammy.


By my way of thinking we have a problem somewhere. Either in evaluating talent or developing it.


However....

This might just be me cherrypicking data. Not looking at guys like Millsap. Or even discounting the Jazz picking up Matthews. Or maybe you could go across every team in the league and point out situations like the above ones, and it's not that the Jazz are bad, it's just that everyone is bad/makes mistakes.

So, someone set me straight, do the Jazz have a problem evaluating/developing talent and/or drafting or is it just the reality of the NBA?
 
Thompson was taken before Burks. We didn't pass on Klay.

Kosta took a while to develop, just like every other young big selected late in the draft.

Matthews was offered a huge front-loaded contract that we couldn't afford with Kirilenko and Okur on the books.

Harris's heart was not with the Jazz. I can see why we traded him, but I'm not happy with what we got back.
 
Koufus isn't even that good. He looked like a scrub for most of the minutes I watched the Warriors/Nuggets series.
 
And of course any young player you trade is going to get better. It's called development and NBA experience.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
It -seems- like the Jazz are incapable of either drafting players or developing players.

By my way of thinking we have a problem somewhere. Either in evaluating talent or developing it.


However....

This might just be me cherrypicking data. Not looking at guys like Millsap. Or even discounting the Jazz picking up Matthews. Or maybe you could go across every team in the league and point out situations like the above ones, and it's not that the Jazz are bad, it's just that everyone is bad/makes mistakes.

So, someone set me straight, do the Jazz have a problem evaluating/developing talent and/or drafting or is it just the reality of the NBA?
Click to expand...

.....well, the old saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it? Well, the Jazz have been broke for a number of years now and it doesn't seem that they know how to fix it for sure! Very good points made and even cutting the front office some slack, we're still at square 1 and don't know what will happen next season. My solution? Open the door and let Stockton and Malone walk through???
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
They didn't pass on Thompson.......
Click to expand...
Reality checked.

Seriously though, there are a lot of teams that Burks would look really good on. The Jazz aren't one of them. Or at least they weren't last season.

I love how we blasted the Warriors for starting five rookies their last game of the season. Locke led the charge. If they had been bad this year, our media would be ridiculing them as an example of what happens when you go too young. Yet somehow they lose Lee and get better.

Really, the Warriors and Mark Jackson are showing the league that if you put enough talent on a team and give them enough confidence, good things can happen.

Steph Curry is amazing, but outside of him I refuse to believe that the Warriors have more talent on their team than the Jazz. Their young guys have just been given larger roles and way more confidence.

When I think of how much fun a guy like Burks could be having on the warriors, I start to feel a little bad for him, his millions of dollars aside.

Now Locke's holding them up as a possible model for the Jazz, but do you think there's any universe in which Corbin would bring veteran tough guys like Jarrett Jack and Carl Landry off the bench?
 
carolinajazz said:
.....well, the old saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it? Well, the Jazz have been broke for a number of years now and it doesn't seem that they know how to fix it for sure! Very good points made and even cutting the front office some slack, we're still at square 1 and don't know what will happen next season. My solution? Open the door and let Stockton and Malone walk through???
Click to expand...

Sure, as long as the door they walk through has a time machine on the other side and we can get early 90s Stock and Malone then we're all set.
 
This tread is full of fail. Jazz never even got a chance to draft Thompson as he was the 11th pick and the Jazz selected Burks at 12. And every guy used as an example except Burks was under Sloan not Corbin.

Then there is this Gem:

mct said:
Reality checked.


I love how we blasted the Warriors for starting five rookies their last game of the season. Locke led the charge. If they had been bad this year, our media would be ridiculing them as an example of what happens when you go too young. Yet somehow they lose Lee and get better.
Click to expand...

Of course the Warrior were ridiculed for starting 5 rookies. It had nothing to due with development and every thing to due with pulling one of the most obvious tank jobs in NBA history in order to keep a lottery pick. Don't you dare give Mark Jackson credit for developing young guys when all he was doing was trying to lose on perpose for a pick. A pick Who has been big for them this year and in the playoffs.
 
Xsy said:
Thompson was taken before Burks. We didn't pass on Klay.

Kosta took a while to develop, just like every other young big selected late in the draft.

Matthews was offered a huge front-loaded contract that we couldn't afford with Kirilenko and Okur on the books.

Harris's heart was not with the Jazz. I can see why we traded him, but I'm not happy with what we got back.
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Well said. However, I'm not sure the Jazz would have matched the Matthews' contract even WITHOUT AK or Okur. It was an exorbitant, unprecedented amount of money to give to an undrafted FA. Twenty-eight other GM's agreed with Utah. Kosta has done nicely, but he's still not a top NBA center and probably never will be. As for the Harris trade, Marvin was worth a shot, IMO. Still believe a big part of his "failure" was due to Corbin and Alfense. Marvin never got the ball in rhythm. In fact, he never got the ball. Utah has loads of cap space. In fact, they might be under the minimum and forced to pay out the difference to their players at the end of the year. At worst, Marvin is an expiring contract who can be dealt at some point. And his contract comes off the books before the Jazz have to pay Hayward and Favors.
 
Ben10 said:
This tread is full of fail. Jazz never even got a chance to draft Thompson as he was the 11th pick and the Jazz selected Burks at 12. And every guy used as an example except Burks was under Sloan not Corbin.

Then there is this Gem:



Of course the Warrior were ridiculed for starting 5 rookies. It had nothing to due with development and every thing to due with pulling one of the most obvious tank jobs in NBA history in order to keep a lottery pick. Don't you dare give Mark Jackson credit for developing young guys when all he was doing was trying to lose on perpose for a pick. A pick Who has been big for them this year and in the playoffs.
Click to expand...
Of course they were tanking, but it was a decision that paid off. Then they started their lottery pick all year. Another decision that paid off.

I realize they could have lost the coin flip, and they easily could have crumbled again this year, but they didn't. It's gotta be a little satisfying after being mediocre for so long.

Ben10, do you honestly believe there's a way out of mediocrity for the Jazz that doesn't involve going young?
 
mct said:
Ben10, do you honestly believe there's a way out of mediocrity for the Jazz that doesn't involve going young?
Click to expand...

What I honestly believe is that the Jazz had a plan to try to be a team competing for a playoff spot, and teaching there young guys what it takes to win. So that this next year when they finally have all there contracts off the books that the could comfortably turn the team over to guys like Hayward and Favors and still have a fan base left. The Jazz know that they are going to have to go through the go young stage. They were just trying to soften the blow when it happens next year. (not sure the softening part worked as the fan base was really turned off by the Jefferson offense).

The question is did this plan work or not. We wont know until the team is turned over to the young guys going into this next year. So all this jumping the gun on the Golden State way of doing it just bugs me. Because guess what. For every Golden States story this year there is the Bobcat story, and the Wizards story, and the Orlando story, and Phoenix Story, and the New Orleans story. All of those teams tried to do it the same way. Tank for a good pick then Play the young guys. Only 1 out of them got any place doing it. And it was the one that had the 28 year old All Star (Not a young guy) 2 vets that accepted back up rolls. (Sap wasn't doing that). And a guy that could be the best shooter ever.

So in short mct (outside of the Jazz somehow signing CP3 this off season) the honest answer is no. I don't see a way the Jazz get out of mediocrity with out going young. But from the examples of the way others have gone about this I am not as upset as most that the Jazz are trying a different way to get to the point of getting there.
 
This thread had failure written all over it.

Seriously, you really want Koufas to be the Jazz starting center?
 
Ben10 said:
What I honestly believe is that the Jazz had a plan to try to be a team competing for a playoff spot, and teaching there young guys what it takes to win. So that this next year when they finally have all there contracts off the books that the could comfortably turn the team over to guys like Hayward and Favors and still have a fan base left. The Jazz know that they are going to have to go through the go young stage. They were just trying to soften the blow when it happens next year. (not sure the softening part worked as the fan base was really turned off by the Jefferson offense).

The question is did this plan work or not. We wont know until the team is turned over to the young guys going into this next year. So all this jumping the gun on the Golden State way of doing it just bugs me. Because guess what. For every Golden States story this year there is the Bobcat story, and the Wizards story, and the Orlando story, and Phoenix Story, and the New Orleans story. All of those teams tried to do it the same way. Tank for a good pick then Play the young guys. Only 1 out of them got any place doing it. And it was the one that had the 28 year old All Star (Not a young guy) 2 vets that accepted back up rolls. (Sap wasn't doing that). And a guy that could be the best shooter ever.

So in short mct (outside of the Jazz somehow signing CP3 this off season) the honest answer is no. I don't see a way the Jazz get out of mediocrity with out going young. But from the examples of the way others have gone about this I am not as upset as most that the Jazz are trying a different way to get to the point of getting there.
Click to expand...

You mention the bobcats, pheonix, orlando, wizards, and new orleans as doing what we wanted the jazz to do and failing at it.
But see, none of those teams traded a superstar (dwill) and had 4 lotto picks in 2 drafts so the jazz were in a UNIQUE situation to have a quick, successful youth rebuild and they totally failed.... wasting two years in the process and pissing off a large percentage of thier fan base
 
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