Okur Update

[NUMBERICA]

For the record, I like Memo. He's a great player to have in a Bonner-role or if you have an All-NBA defender that can guard either 4s or 5s (Duncan, Howard) and if he's on a reasonable deal. He's a nice guy. Great. I wish him the best and I hope I'm wrong.

My ire is directed at the organization for extending him prematurely out of what was most certainly a fear-driven decision. Memo was a crappy 3rd option at best for most of the time he was here and past 30. He had another year with the Jazz and after 30, SMART teams just don't extend role players, ESPECIALLY when the deal extends into a new CBA during a recession. You never take a risk you don't have to, and there's no doubt in my mind the Jazz could've had him for cheaper and/or gotten a better year out of him last year. Because of that decision, the Jazz have been forced to make some tough decisions already and if the new CBA is stricter, prepare for the Jazz to find a way to further deplete their assets to save money.

 

[jazzmanian devil]

lol at the memo apologists

Resistance is futile, either convert with your own good will or the dark force will kick your faithless butt into shape...

Well, joke by side I don't think Okur will ever return into shape to be good enough to be a difference maker. As Numberica mentioned he should be still good enough though to be a solid role player but his contract is of course going to haunt him. It's probably not as bad as AK's situation, but it'll still be a thorn in everybodies eye(including the FO) from now on.

 

[Jeditiger]

LOL @ Okur haters.

No, nevermind. You are just sad armchair point guards.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Wow, box-score depth. The only problem is box score defense is incredibly flawed (otherwise Chris Paul is one of the best defenders in the league, as was Iverson, as was/is Camby). And the only OTHER problem is that on those Bulls teams they had three All-NBA defensive first team members (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman).

So,
1. Your stats don't prove a damn thing.
2. The Bulls team defense was suffocating.
3. They had Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, and Phil Jackson.

Those two bottom reasons alone automatically makes one a contender. A combination never before or since seen. The Jazz don't have those luxuries, even though Longley was twice the defender Okur was. At least. And that isn't saying much.

I used a bit of boxscore info to illustrate what I have seen of Luc Longley.
He was Memo Okur 15 years ago, except he couldnt shoot long range. You think Longley was twice the defender Okur is, you are out of your mind, and should rewatch those games, and you should read your own post before stating that. The rest of the Bulls team is what made their defense so good, Jordan, Pippen, etc... not Jean-Luc Longley.

Boxscore will mean something to you if you also have watched the games. The point is, you asked which championship team has won without a starting C who could defend. I told you who, and if you want to argue that Longley was a good defender you must be crazy.

 

[Marty McFly]

So who gave me the negative rep and said "Okur is better than 90% of the centers in this league?"

Centers I'd rather have than Okur, in no particular order:

Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Yao Ming
Al Jefferson
Shaq
Robin Lopez
Brooke Lopez
David Lee
Joakim Noah
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
Marcus Camby

 

[Jazz Spazz]

The Jazz took the Bulls to 6 games in consecutive years; in one of those years had a top-10 all-time point-differential (the other 9 won championships) and in one of those years they had the best record in the league while sweeping the twin towers Spurs and the Kobe/Shaq Lakers. They did all of that having a C rotation of Greg Ostertag, Greg Foster, and 6' 9" Antoine Carr. If that Jazz team has a Mark Eaton playing his averages, the Jazz win two titles and you'd have to be retarded to honestly think otherwise. With Memo? Who freaking knows, but the Pistons didn't get to hoist their trophy by the grace of Memo as he was playing only bit minutes that series. That's really all he should've been doing his whole career on a contender. But he hasn't been playing for one since that time, and that's not a coincidence.

I think the Jazz would have won in 97 and 98 if they had either Eaton, or Okur. Either would be an upgrade from Ostertag. My point is that it takes more than just a Center that defends to win. You also have to have shooters, and playmakers. Stockton and Malone came closer to a championship with Hornacek as a shooter than they did with Eaton as a defensive minded center. You are not looking at the whole picture if you make a statement like you did. It takes more. It takes team defense, playmakers, shooters, and a good bench... probably in that order.

You won't change your mind, so lets just agree to disagree, and hope we have a center this year that will produce, and defend adequately.

Oh, by the way, nice use of stats to try to prove your argument. Kindof like using some boxscore info to support a statement eh?..... blablablablabla

 

[Jazz Spazz]

So who gave me the negative rep and said "Okur is better than 90% of the centers in this league?"

Centers I'd rather have than Okur, in no particular order:

Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Yao Ming
Al Jefferson
Shaq
Robin Lopez
Brooke Lopez
David Lee
Joakim Noah
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
Marcus Camby

Take Shaq and David Lee off the list and I agree if you are talking about defense, but his offense is better than many on that list. While I do like Okur, and defend him somewhat, I agree more with those who feel the team needs more of a defensive minded Center. I dont always agree with their arguments like "Okur sucks", but we do need more blocked, and altered shots. There are no stats for altered shots, but you can see it in the shooting percentages.

David Lee is not a center, even if he gets stuck playing there from time to time. Shaq just should not be in the conversation, he has really slowed down, and cant stay on the floor very long.

 

[Sneakers]

Its not like Okur is gonna return and be the focal point of the offense... how can we not be excited to add a 7 foot, 3pt shooting and good rebounding role player to the team, especially mid-season? Almost like a trade..

 

[TheSilencer1313]

can you provide us with the same numbers for the rest of the team so we know who exactly should play and who shouldn't?

Haha, yes please do ;-)

Mr Stats....

 

[homeytennis]

Isn't David Lee about 5"6" in sneakers?

 

[NUMBERICA]

My point is that it takes more than just a Center that defends to win. You also have to have shooters, and playmakers.

My point is that in nearly every situation in the last 30 years, you need a defensive C to be a real contender. Especially since hand-checking is no longer allowed. If you want to pollute that with some moot crap involving the Jordan-era Bulls (one of the best series of teams in the history of the NBA), fine, but the Jazz are not constructed that well and Memo is one of the biggest reasons why.

 

[One Brow]

His transition defense sucks big time.

Who are the centers that play good transition defense?

So who gave me the negative rep and said "Okur is better than 90% of the centers in this league?"

30 teams, say 2.5 centers per team, 75 centers. Is Okur in the top 8? Maybe not.

Centers I'd rather have than Okur, in no particular order:

Dwight Howard
Andrew Bynum
Pau Gasol
Marc Gasol
Yao Ming
Al Jefferson
Shaq
Robin Lopez
Brooke Lopez
David Lee
Joakim Noah
Andrew Bogut
Chris Kaman
Marcus Camby

I disagree about Bynum (injures), O'Neal (now even slower than Okur), Lee (undersized), Robin Lopez (I have seen no evidence of an offensive game), and Camby (older and more often injured). Still, that's 9 I agree about, and there are probably a couple more (Perkins, maybe Milcic).