CJ McCollum: "This culture, is perfect for me."

[Twin Towers]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article...igued-by-possibility-of-playing-for-Jazz.html

"Everybody has weaknesses in their game, but I feel like my game is very well-rounded. I'm a chameleon," said McCollum, who averaged 21.7 points, 6.1 rebounds and 2.7 assists in his four-year career at Lehigh. "I can come in and contribute in a multitude of ways and I feel like it will show when I step onto the court."

I know a lot of people like him but I honestly do not. I am so tired of these score first point guards. How many Allen Iversons, Steve Francis's, Arenas type players does the league have to go through. I honestly don't see much of a difference between this guy and Randy Foye. He is a better outside shooter than Foye was coming out I will give him that, but their body types are almost identical. And they both struggled coming out as play makers. Both great scorers and pretty athletic coming out. Everyone thinks that you can change these players that you can teach these combo guys to be play makers. Well its too big of a risk to sacrifice the rest of the team. That is what score first PG's usually do.
Guys like Derrick Rose & Westbrook are exceptions to the rule. They are freaks in the athletic department so they can get away with being a little selfish.

Does anyone want a 6-3 SG on our team?? Do we really think that will turn out well.

Does anyone want a score first PG who has not shown he can get others involved enough (averaged 2.9 assists per game and 2.7 turnovers per game).

We all know the biggest part of our future is Favors and Kanter. If we want them to develop we need a PG who will get them involved and help them develop into dominating the paint offensively. That is our only shot of a championship. If we turn Favors and Kanter into role playing big men, than we will stay an average team. If turn them into dominating on the offensive end in the post we become contenders.

If we had a coach like Brian Shaw running the triangle than I wouldn't be so against trying to draft him or even trading up to get him. A system like that the play making would be balanced between the PG, SG & SF. But the fact is Corbin is retarded and even last year when we had better play makers than Mo Williams they never got the chance. Mo Williams dominated the ball and we all saw how that turned out when it counted.

I know its unlikely the Jazz can draft him because they would have to trade up but I would rather trade up for Burke. Someone who has shown they can get others involved. Its this mentality of what a PG is now that is screwing up this league.

 

[Stoked]

I also am a fan of the pass first, floor general type point guard. However why take one is they are clearly the lesser player? Who are the core first PGs and who are the pass first PGs in this draft? Who is more talented than who? Just because McCollum (or any other PG) is not my flavor does not mean they are a bad pick.

 

[mellow]

McCollum is my early pick for Rookie of the year. I like him. I like his game. I would like him on the Jazz. But I really doubt the Jazz can make it happen.

 

[Twin Towers]

I also am a fan of the pass first, floor general type point guard. However why take one is they are clearly the lesser player? Who are the core first PGs and who are the pass first PGs in this draft? Who is more talented than who? Just because McCollum (or any other PG) is not my flavor does not mean they are a bad pick.

Burke has shown to have play making ability. Even the German has shown to have that ability. McCollum has not. If they have not shown to have any play making ability than we have no chance of making them a real point guard.
Carter-Williams won't make it in the league. He will be out of the league or at the end of the bench his whole career. I love that he is pass first but he can't hang with PG's speed in this league and he can't shoot which teams will easily be able to shut his play making ability down.

The PG is the guy who sets the tone for everything else. He starts the offense. If the offense starts out as being selfish than it creates a domino effect for the rest of the team. Everyone tries to shoot quickly because they are afraid they won't get the ball again. Even though Shabazz is a ball hog at least we can contain him and let him be a JR. Smith type player. The PG is different compared to the other positions.
The league has turned into trying to create all-star teams. Just find the most talented players at every position. That doesn't work. You need to find players who know there role. GM's just ignore this fact. If talent created wins than the old Knicks team with Francis and Marbuary would of at least made them decent. or look at the Lakers roster now.

Teams in the 80's & 90's made a much bigger effort into finding great role players. They still exist just this potential in players has turned everything into expecting all-stars at every position.

 

[Twin Towers]

McCollum is my early pick for Rookie of the year. I like him. I like his game. I would like him on the Jazz. But I really doubt the Jazz can make it happen.

I actually wouldn't deny that he would be rookie of the year. You can become rookie of the year by just playing over 30 minutes the game and getting the ball a lot.

Steve Francis was rookie of the year. So was Tyreke Evans. So was Okafor. So was Iverson & Mike Miller.

I am not saying its a bad thing but being rookie of the year does not equal being the best pick long term for the team.

 

[Stifle Tower]

He played at Lehigh. Did they have dominant players around him or was he relied on for his scoring in order for them to win games? I hate the term "pass-first" PG. The game has changed since Stockton played. Who are the "pass-first" PG's we've had since then? Maybe Watson and Tinsley qualify. And they do because they can't and don't want to shoot. Deron was not a "pass-first" PG. He was a "dribble 10 seconds and try to fake guys out with a few crossovers" PG. And then he'd pass if he didn't have a drive or step-back jumper he could take. Now I'll admit, DW WAS most effective running the P&R's with Boozer or pick-and-pops with Memo. But he still looked for his offense. I WANT a PG who can score, just like I want a PF, C, SG and SF who can score. Think how novel that would be: all five players have to be guarded. No guys like Brewer, or Tinsley, or AK that you can just sag off of and dare them to shoot, knowing that they may hurt you 1 out of 3 times....at best.

 

[Qman]

Burke has shown to have play making ability. Even the German has shown to have that ability. McCollum has not. If they have not shown to have any play making ability than we have no chance of making them a real point guard.
Carter-Williams won't make it in the league. He will be out of the league or at the end of the bench his whole career. I love that he is pass first but he can't hang with PG's speed in this league and he can't shoot which teams will easily be able to shut his play making ability down.

The PG is the guy who sets the tone for everything else. He starts the offense. If the offense starts out as being selfish than it creates a domino effect for the rest of the team. Everyone tries to shoot quickly because they are afraid they won't get the ball again. Even though Shabazz is a ball hog at least we can contain him and let him be a JR. Smith type player. The PG is different compared to the other positions.
The league has turned into trying to create all-star teams. Just find the most talented players at every position. That doesn't work. You need to find players who know there role. GM's just ignore this fact. If talent created wins than the old Knicks team with Francis and Marbuary would of at least made them decent. or look at the Lakers roster now.

Replace PG with 'the playmaker' and you have a point. PG no longer must be the playmaker. Burks and Hayward have the ability to be playmakers. Now they need to refine it. But Foye-Burks-Hayward lineup seems to do pretty well. And shooting is very, very important.

The talented players at every position has worked pretty well for the Pacers, Heat and Spurs. Or would you call Parker, Chalmers or George Hill traditional points?

 

[Twin Towers]

He played at Lehigh. Did they have dominant players around him or was he relied on for his scoring in order for them to win games? I hate the term "pass-first" PG. The game has changed since Stockton played. Who are the "pass-first" PG's we've had since then? Maybe Watson and Tinsley qualify. And they do because they can't and don't want to shoot. Deron was not a "pass-first" PG. He was a "dribble 10 seconds and try to fake guys out with a few crossovers" PG. And then he'd pass if he didn't have a drive or step-back jumper he could take. Now I'll admit, DW WAS most effective running the P&R's with Boozer or pick-and-pops with Memo. But he still looked for his offense. I WANT a PG who can score, just like I want a PF, C, SG and SF who can score. Think how novel that would be: all five players have to be guarded. No guys like Brewer, or Tinsley, or AK that you can just sag off of and dare them to shoot, knowing that they may hurt you 1 out of 3 times....at best.

I agree. I think Burke is very similar in terms of still looking for his shot like Deron does and did. But he has shown he can be a play making player. I am not a fan of Deron or Chris Paul even. I think these players are ball hogs. They dribble and they feel like they are the only ones who can set up the offense.
My point is if you get a player who is score first and also does not have play making ability than it is actually worse than finding a player like Deron or Chris Paul who just dribble the team to death. If we had a real coach who used players to their abilities and would make sure McCollum or any player like him would be minimized and let Hayward run more of the offense than I wouldn't even be against him. But look what happened with Mo Williams last year. Corbin is the major problem. But we are stuck with him.

 

[Twin Towers]

Replace PG with 'the playmaker' and you have a point. PG no longer must be the playmaker. Burks and Hayward have the ability to be playmakers. Now they need to refine it. But Foye-Burks-Hayward lineup seems to do pretty well. And shooting is very, very important.

The talented players at every position has worked pretty well for the Pacers, Heat and Spurs. Or would you call Parker, Chalmers or George Hill traditional points?

That is what I mean exactly. I don't care how many assists per game they get. If anything I think its better to have that spread around. But they need some play making ability. I don't see it with McCollum. I could be wrong but I haven't seen anything or read anything that shows he will curb his scoring.
The tough part is Chalmers(I wanted him over Dofous) and George Hill do not dominate the ball. They have good coaches who make sure everyone touches the ball. But they understand TEAM which helps them too. If you put a guy like Mo Williams on the Pacers he would of ruined Chemistry because he is so selfish.
Corbin showed he did not have the ability to coach a ball hog PG. He just let him run wild and everyone's game suffered because of it.
I don't want another John Stockton. I want a PG like B.J. Armstrong or Chalmers. Someone who understands there role is to settle everyone down and make sure the ball moves and hit the open jumper. Not be the leading scorer on the team.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

I also am a fan of the pass first, floor general type point guard. However why take one is they are clearly the lesser player? Who are the core first PGs and who are the pass first PGs in this draft? Who is more talented than who? Just because McCollum (or any other PG) is not my flavor does not mean they are a bad pick.

I also am a fan of pass first PGs. What I don't want is Mo Williams 2.0, a point guard who is a gunner first and who does not get other players involved to the extent they should be. (And please, Dear God, a PG who doesn't ALWAYS try to play hero ball at the end of each period.) I really hope that Corbin installs more of a high P&R with Favors, which means we also want a PG who excels at P&R. I'm not against McCollum, but that 2.6 assists a game really concerns me.

 

[Stoked]

I also am a fan of pass first PGs. What I don't want is Mo Williams 2.0, a point guard who is a gunner first and who does not get other players involved to the extent they should be. (And please, Dear God, a PG who doesn't ALWAYS try to play hero ball at the end of each period.) I really hope that Corbin installs more of a high P&R with Favors, which means we also want a PG who excels at P&R. I'm not against McCollum, but that 2.6 assists a game really concerns me.

OK fair enough. My question then is, Is there another viable player (especailly PG) for the Jazz to take? Do we push a PG at 14 or try to pick one up at 21?

If not McCollum than who? (or if not "insert player name" than who?)

 

[mhindy]

The tough part is Chalmers(I wanted him over Dofous) and George Hill do not dominate the ball. They have good coaches who make sure everyone touches the ball. But they understand TEAM which helps them too. If you put a guy like Mo Williams on the Pacers he would of ruined Chemistry because he is so selfish.
Corbin showed he did not have the ability to coach a ball hog PG. He just let him run wild and everyone's game suffered because of it.
I don't want another John Stockton. I want a PG like B.J. Armstrong or Chalmers. Someone who understands there role is to settle everyone down and make sure the ball moves and hit the open jumper. Not be the leading scorer on the team.

You realize Chalmers is terrible, right? Saying you don't want McCollum and then following up by saying you want a Chalmers type PG kills your argument. If McCollum regresses as an NBA player, he'll be Mario Chalmers.

 

[The Black Swordsman]

This guy reminds me of a better shooting Brandon Knight. Not bad.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

That is what I mean exactly. I don't care how many assists per game they get. If anything I think its better to have that spread around. But they need some play making ability. I don't see it with McCollum. I could be wrong but I haven't seen anything or read anything that shows he will curb his scoring.
The tough part is Chalmers(I wanted him over Dofous) and George Hill do not dominate the ball. They have good coaches who make sure everyone touches the ball. But they understand TEAM which helps them too. If you put a guy like Mo Williams on the Pacers he would of ruined Chemistry because he is so selfish.
Corbin showed he did not have the ability to coach a ball hog PG. He just let him run wild and everyone's game suffered because of it.
I don't want another John Stockton. I want a PG like B.J. Armstrong or Chalmers. Someone who understands there role is to settle everyone down and make sure the ball moves and hit the open jumper. Not be the leading scorer on the team.

Very well said. I couldn't have said it better (and in fact didn't).

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

OK fair enough. My question then is, Is there another viable player (especailly PG) for the Jazz to take? Do we push a PG at 14 or try to pick one up at 21?

If not McCollum than who? (or if not "insert player name" than who?)

Ya got me, I don't know. I don't feel I have a good enough handle on the players to have an informed opinion. I know what I don't want and want I want, I'm just not sure who gives that.

 

[Twin Towers]

You realize Chalmers is terrible, right? Saying you don't want McCollum and then following up by saying you want a Chalmers type PG kills your argument. If McCollum regresses as an NBA player, he'll be Mario Chalmers.

I am not saying Chalmers is a great all around. I mean his decision making is much better than a Mo Williams type player. He understands his role. That is what I like personally.

 

[Revolution 9]

This thread has a nice twist. With the headline you come in thinking it's going to be pro-McCollum, but it's not.
I really like hearing different points of view. Especially when they are clearly not done out of hatred, or just trying to be different.

 

[Twin Towers]

I also am a fan of pass first PGs. What I don't want is Mo Williams 2.0, a point guard who is a gunner first and who does not get other players involved to the extent they should be. (And please, Dear God, a PG who doesn't ALWAYS try to play hero ball at the end of each period.) I really hope that Corbin installs more of a high P&R with Favors, which means we also want a PG who excels at P&R. I'm not against McCollum, but that 2.6 assists a game really concerns me.

Jimmy eat Jazz - actually said it much better than I did. Kept it simple.

I actually think PG might not be something we should go after with the first pick we have. We should try to trade up and get Burke. If we cannot pick the next best player at SG or SF. When I say best not the most talented the best who understands their role. Draft a PG at the 21st pick for a back up PG position. The Majority of late first round picks never end up in rotations. Most teen picks do though. So we need to be more careful in finding the RIGHT player not just the most talented player.

 

[Dr. Jones]

This guy reminds me of a better shooting Brandon Knight. Not bad.

That's actually pretty good comparison.. and that's coming from someone who hates comps.

 

[Stoked]

Ya got me, I don't know. I don't feel I have a good enough handle on the players to have an informed opinion. I know what I don't want and want I want, I'm just not sure who gives that.

Well what if that type of player that you do not want is clearly the best player left at your pick? Do you go with a lesser talent just because he is not what you and I would prefer? Or do we draf thim adn just accept that it was the best we could do?