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Poll: Hayward vs. Millsap

It's a tough comparison because Hayward is asked to instigate more and play further from the basket. So, I'll accept a lower shooting percentage and fewer rebounds as casualties of his role.

That said, if Hay can get to 18/4.5/5 on 45% overall, while shooting about 7 FTs a game, then it'd be hard to say he wasn't more valuable to his team than Millsap was to his. But, then again, Hay has to start shooting daggers too; Paul was an assassin. Those intangibles are tilted pretty far in Paul's direction at the moment.
 
I seem to remember that whenever Millsap and Hayward played together (usually without Al or some other impediment to movement of the ball and the players in the offense) that they played well off of each other. Anyway...

I think their potentials are not that far off from each other. Where Millsap couldn't overpower most players, Hayward isn't burning anyone with his first step or powering through contact at the rim either. Where Millsap wasn't a guy that you could really call a play for in an iso and depend on a bucket, Hayward can't really either. Where Millsap thrived as a secondary option because he could find wrinkles in a defense and was a savvy player, Hayward can't do much with the ball in his hands unless there's a guy like Millsap that can take advantage of the attention that Hayward might draw.

Millsap wasn't THE answer, and I highly doubt that Hayward suddenly becomes THE answer either. But that doesn't mean each can't be AN answer.

As far as this head-to-head "who would you rather have" debate, if Hayward is of comparable quality, I choose him because he's younger and because he fills a greater positional need.
 
Hack said:
Hayward is better because he isn't limited by his size at his position.

/thread
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6' 8" with average length and not much build is a bit limiting for a SF and he's not terribly athletic either. I know his two handed dunks that barely clear the rim are really impressive but really.
 
cctrackstar said:
Funny thing, their height is almost identical, but only Hayward was willing to be a SF. Yeah, their weights are different, but with Millsap's
guard skills' the difference really isn't that great.
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I don't agree at all. Lebron James, Magic Johnson, Carlos Boozer, Shane Battier or Carmelo Anthony are all 6-8ish players too and they are all completely different players.

Millsap's guard skills are OK for a PF but they are incomparable to Hayward's.
 
Hayward all day any day and even other times too over Sapitude. Im too good to play where the team needs me...blah blah
 
Millsap was my favorite Jazz player since Karl (I liked AK a lot as well) but I do think that Hayward adds defensive potential to his position that Millsap did not. I always thought that Sap was coming back, and I am sad to see him gone, but I think the Jazz are going for a defensive team with Favors starting at the 4. Millsap was not a very good small forward, and Favors maybe has more potential than him at the 4. At any rate, I will miss Millsap, and his production. I never bought the "tired" argument, and I can't understand why Jazz Fanz thought his efficiency was compromised the last two seasons. He was basically the same guy /36 that he was when we thought he walked on water.

If Hayward can be better than Millsap in total production, he will probably be an all star, as Millsap should have been. I think either of them could be better used, and we will see how ATL uses Sap.
 
I think the board/fans are in the honeymoon phase with Hayward. Millsap is an ex at this point. We know where Sap could take us--we are dreaming about where Hayward might lead us.

Trying to view it objectively, it's hard to beat the unconscious Millsap we saw in spurts. I can't remember a player who could do that on the Jazz. It was surreal (miracle in miami etc). I certainly haven't seen Hayward do that offensively yet, but Millsap took a few years before he was able to do it.
 
vegas said:
I think the board/fans are in the honeymoon phase with Hayward. Millsap is an ex at this point. We know where Sap could take us--we are dreaming about where Hayward might lead us.

Trying to view it objectively, it's hard to beat the unconscious Millsap we saw in spurts. I can't remember a player who could do that on the Jazz. It was surreal (miracle in miami etc). I certainly haven't seen Hayward do that offensively yet, but Millsap took a few years before he was able to do it.
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The problem wasn't the peaks, it was the valleys.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Where Millsap wasn't a guy that you could really call a play for in an iso and depend on a bucket, Hayward can't really either.
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Statistically, Millsap is much better in isos and post-ups than Hayward is in isos and scoring as the pick and roll ball handler. Millsap is far more "do-it-all" than Hayward is, although Hayward is probably a better off-ball and transition option at this point.
 
GVC said:
Statistically, Millsap is much better in isos and post-ups than Hayward is in isos and scoring as the pick and roll ball handler. Millsap is far more "do-it-all" than Hayward is, although Hayward is probably a better off-ball and transition option at this point.
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Hayward is only better in transition as a ball handler (who benefits from Millsap's rebounding). Millsap was the better transition finisher.

Hayward's offense is highly dependent on everyone else creating his shots. He's trash when he has to do it himself. The forum has talked a lot about Favors developing a go to move. Hayward needs one even more badly.
 
franklin said:
The forum has talked a lot about Favors developing a go to move. Hayward needs one even more badly.
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It's unlikely either is going to grow into a primary option (post/iso/PnR Handler). Hayward, however, has already proven that he's a very good off-ball scorer. Favors needs a consistent 12-15-foot jumper more than Hayward needs to figure out how to score off the dribble.
 
I do see the need for Hayward to develop a way to score from the dribble. He uses a dribble drive enough to pull defenders and find an open player, but this will be less effective if he can't actually score in these situations and keep the defense honest.

I didn't watch enough full games last year to be 100% confident in my memory, but it seems Hayward would make decent moves, create space and get a shot but would miss more often than make the shot after all that effort. I think he's close but like others have mentioned, needs to finish more consistently.

I think he has become more consistent year to year, so I hope the trend continues for this year. I also truly hope he does not have the slow start to the season he's had in the past. We don't have time for that, and it's a bad habit to be in to need 30 games to begin to be effective consistently.
 
Hayward's first step isn't close, his dribble is loose/high, and he can't finish through contact. He's borderline elite off-ball. Why would you even want him initiating the offense? Play to his strengths.
 
GVC said:
Hayward's first step isn't close, his dribble is loose/high, and he can't finish through contact. He's borderline elite off-ball. Why would you even want him initiating the offense? Play to his strengths.
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Not saying I want it to be his first priority, just saying he's a good passer and being able to do multiple things will keep the defense honest. If he can improve in that area it will open up the other options even more... if he can prove he can beat his defender even half the time and force some help D someone else will be open.

Do I want this to be what he does every time with the ball? Nope. But I also don't want the team to give the exact same look to the defense all the time with Burke doing everything all the time... unless Burke proves to be exceptional and efficient.

Maybe it's a hangover from seeing Mo running the point, I like to see other people create.
 
GVC said:
It's unlikely either is going to grow into a primary option (post/iso/PnR Handler). Hayward, however, has already proven that he's a very good off-ball scorer. Favors needs a consistent 12-15-foot jumper more than Hayward needs to figure out how to score off the dribble.
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Sure, but I can post up Favors and expect half-assed scoring. I can't give the ball to Hayward and expect much in result.

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Favors' shooting has regressed for three straight years except for getting to the line more while shooting better there. I'm not holding out hope for a non-shooter to develop a shot as it generally doesn't happen. If he does though...
 
JazzSpazz said:
Not saying I want it to be his first priority, just saying he's a good passer and being able to do multiple things will keep the defense honest. If he can improve in that area it will open up the other options even more... if he can prove he can beat his defender even half the time and force some help D someone else will be open.

Do I want this to be what he does every time with the ball? Nope. But I also don't want the team to give the exact same look to the defense all the time with Burke doing everything all the time... unless Burke proves to be exceptional and efficient.

Maybe it's a hangover from seeing Mo running the point, I like to see other people create.
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He can pretty much beat his defender any time he wants. Problem is, like you said, he doesn't know what to do after. Also, his driving strength is getting into a packed paint where passing to the wings is not an option. He needs cutters on dangerous passes to get assists (meaning he has to commit to the pass or shot which risks turning the ball).

Hayward has no floater. He tries to dribble around guys by using drastic head fakes instead of euro step/curl ball/footwork. He can't put a defender on his hip and attack the interior help defenders. He can't freeze the entire defense by blowing past his guy unexpectedly.

In short, Hayward isos are easy to guard both individually and as a team.
 
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