Did Reagan kill small business?

[♪alt13]

Become?

Sense when haven't they been a part of the political struggle?

You do realize that union power and influence is at a 100 year low, right? Like it's been declining for the past 30 years while republicans have acted like union power has surged.

Interesting.... Our economic decline, abandonment of common sense economic policy, and raiding of the middle class for the benefit of the top coincides with the decline of the union... Interesting. I'm sure that is just coincidence, right?

Spent 6 years as a proud union worker. Read my post again. I'm pro union. You frame every argument as left and right and all people as either left or right. You are a politicians puppet.

 

[green]

So, I did a little of your work for you. The average teacher in Utah makes between $33-47K a year. In the Alpine School district, Administrators make between $158-288 a year. Really? You think those unions are protecting teachers? Come on now. How many classes do Principals teach? Administrators?

Give me a break. This is an issue that is plaguing both sides, and until we can admit that, we are screwed.

 

[green]

Spent 6 years as a proud union worker. Read my post again. I'm pro union. You frame every argument as left and right and all people as either left or right. You are a politicians puppet.

Ding, ding, ding. Thriller is the PERFECT example of what's wrong with this country. I have always been anti-union. I'm trying to be convinced that I am wrong. And all he does is call me names and throw out talking points. It makes me all pissed off, and get defensive, and now we have two people in opposite corners unwilling to bend. And everybody else gets screwed.

 

[♪alt13]

Ding, ding, ding. Thriller is the PERFECT example of what's wrong with this country. I have always been anti-union. I'm trying to be convinced that I am wrong. And all he does is call me names and throw out talking points. It makes me all pissed off, and get defensive, and now we have two people in opposite corners unwilling to bend. And everybody else gets screwed.

You should change your position from anti-union to union-neutral as far as public policy is concerned.(imo) I am a Pro-union guy(if there is a union at your workplace I would urge you to join) but I am union-neutral when it comes to government policy.

 

[The Thriller]

SO SHOW ME. Goodness gracious. Do you realize you are just as bad as Rush and Hannity and whoever? You are the same as them. I am asking to be educated. Educate me. Don't regurgitate what you heard on MSNBC and CNN (see, I can do that too).

Show me how many union leaders are here in Utah and what they are making. Then show me what the teachers are making. And if you are correct, the union leader's salary will be very much in line with the teacher's salary and not 2-5 times more.

You act as if you asked for this data and I refused to give it to you. Have patience. Sorry, you were making the point that union bosses made exhorbanant salaries. I wasn't expecting to do your research for you. Give me a heads up next time

Utah doesn't really have a teachers union. In fact, I only know of like 2 fellow teachers that belong to it. So let's check out a very popular union in Florida:

Most of them fall between 100k of below.

Avg teacher salary in Florida is somewhere between 43-55k.

Clearly within your 2-5 times range that you created.


https://www.browardbeat.com/teachers-union-pays-big-salaries/

https://www.fldoe.org/eias/eiaspubs/word/tchsldgl11.doc#_Toc270507356

 

[green]

You act as if you asked for this data and I refused to give it to you. Have patience. Sorry, you were making the point that union bosses made exhorbanant salaries. I wasn't expecting to do your research for you. Give me a heads up next time

Utah doesn't really have a teachers union. In fact, I only know of like 2 fellow teachers that belong to it. So let's check out a very popular union in Florida:

Most of them fall between 100k of below.

Avg teacher salary in Florida is somewhere between 43-55k.

Clearly within your 2-5 times range that you created.


https://www.browardbeat.com/teachers-union-pays-big-salaries/

https://www.fldoe.org/eias/eiaspubs/word/tchsldgl11.doc#_Toc270507356

Thank you for this. I will look at it tomorrow.

 

[green]

Also, I know that Florida is a swing state. Do you have these same stats for states like California, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Mass? I'd be curious to see what the larger states with more population that are heavily blue are doing. More total-union states. I would assume that Florida is in the middle of its union progression. I would like to see where unions end up as they mature.

 

[The Thriller]

So, I did a little of your work for you. The average teacher in Utah makes between $33-47K a year. In the Alpine School district, Administrators make between $158-288 a year. Really? You think those unions are protecting teachers? Come on now. How many classes do Principals teach? Administrators?

Give me a break. This is an issue that is plaguing both sides, and until we can admit that, we are screwed.

Your average administrator makes under 100k in alpine school district. Your true colors are showing here. Don't take the superintendents salary and pass it as "your avg administrator."

Besides, your "avg" high school has 3-4 administrators. Elementary and middle have fewer. Let's pass them all 100k. At most, you'd hire maybe 2 more teachers at that school with money that you would "cut" from the administrators. These are all the same lame *** anti-education arguments I've heard all my career.

Next, we will talk about accountability, how teachers "only" work 9 months per year (haha ummm no), etc. been there heard that.

 

[The Thriller]

Also, I know that Florida is a swing state. Do you have these same stats for states like California, Michigan, New Jersey, New York, Mass? I'd be curious to see what the larger states with more population that are heavily blue are doing. More total-union states. I would assume that Florida is in the middle of its union progression. I would like to see where unions end up as they mature.

Sigh.

Grasping at straws here. You asked a question I answered it. Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be.

Unions aren't what's killing education. Priorities in our society are

Schools can't enforce attendance policies because entitled parents threaten to sue.
Schools go Unfunded.
Education becomes complicated with such an influx of Spanish only speakers.
We focus more on sports than education.
state legislatures play god with education. Would you go to a real estate agent or lawyer if your chest hurt? No. Why the hell do we think real estate agents and lawyers know a damn thing about education?
One of the biggest: all reports comparing us to other countries compare their best students to our avg student. Of course the best students from Japan and Germany outperform our avg ones. We don't divide up our education system like they do.

Those are why education "sucks." Not the union of administration.

 

[♪alt13]

Thriller

Right to work is bull ****(imo) but unions should be supported solely on the skills and talents of their members. Pro-union states kill themselves economically because they prop up silly unions for unskilled workers.

 

[♪alt13]

Sigh.

Grasping at straws here. You asked a question I answered it. Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be.

Unions aren't what's killing education. Priorities in our society are

Schools can't enforce attendance policies because entitled parents threaten to sue.
Schools go Unfunded.
Education becomes complicated with such an influx of Spanish only speakers.
We focus more on sports than education.
state legislatures play god with education. Would you go to a real estate agent or lawyer if your chest hurt? No. Why the hell do we think real estate agents and lawyers know a damn thing about education?
One of the biggest: all reports comparing us to other countries compare their best students to our avg student. Of course the best students from Japan and Germany outperform our avg ones. We don't divide up our education system like they do.

Those are why education "sucks." Not the union of administration.

Bs

My daughter was constantly ill when she started kindergarten. She was the first child of her generation in our extended family and she didn't attend day care so she wasn't exposed to many viruses until she entered school. She missed 8 days that year and I got a letter from the school stating that if she missed another day I would get a summons to appear in Family court. They enforce attendance.

 

[Revolution 9]

Did Bill Clinton and the Republicans kill our country putting NAFTA into action?

 

[The Thriller]

Bs

My daughter was constantly ill when she started kindergarten. She was the first child of her generation in our extended family and she didn't attend day care so she wasn't exposed to many viruses until she entered school. She missed 8 days that year and I got a letter from the school stating that if she missed another day I would get a summons to appear in Family court. They enforce attendance.

Your reaction would have been mine a few years ago. BS is what I would have said too. However...

You easily could have sued. I've seen it done, personally.

In Utah, there was a school district as recent as 2011 that rolled with a no-credit attendance policy. Alpine still does. Many other school districts have already rolled it back. What it essentially is, is if you miss x amount of days/rack up x amount of tardies, you then receive a NC (no credit) for that class until you go to attendance school.

Now, usually the students that really don't care just won't make it up. Most students do care and will make up the work.

This all changed when a certain prominent Utah school was going to give a rich daughter a F for a grade because she had no changed her NC grade through attendance school. Her entitled lawyer father threatened to sue. She had "earned" a C and the school had "no right" to take that "property" away from her based on attendance.

A few other school districts (in other states) have faced this issue, battled in court, and lost. So this Utah school district ended up dropping its entire policy. Guess what attendance is like now?

When speaking with fellow administrators about this (from other states) they know they're one lawsuit away from getting rid of their policy. Many just said, "yeah we know we could be in trouble if anyone threatened to sue. But the benefit is worth the reward. We need to have a strict attendance policy or else truancies and absences go through the roof. We will keep our attendance policy until someone threatens to sue."

 

[♪alt13]

Your reaction would have been mine a few years ago. BS is what I would have said too. However...

You easily could have sued. I've seen it done, personally.

In Utah, there was a school district as recent as 2011 that rolled with a no-credit attendance policy. Alpine still does. Many other school districts have already rolled it back. What it essentially is, is if you miss x amount of days/rack up x amount of tardies, you then receive a NC (no credit) for that class until you go to attendance school.

Now, usually the students that really don't care just won't make it up. Most students do care and will make up the work.

This all changed when a certain prominent Utah school was going to give a rich daughter a F for a grade because she had no changed her NC grade through attendance school. Her entitled lawyer father threatened to sue. She had "earned" a C and the school had "no right" to take that "property" away from her based on attendance.

A few other school districts (in other states) have faced this issue, battled in court, and lost. So this Utah school district ended up dropping its entire policy. Guess what attendance is like now?

When speaking with fellow administrators about this (from other states) they know they're one lawsuit away from getting rid of their policy. Many just said, "yeah we know we could be in trouble if anyone threatened to sue. But the benefit is worth the reward. We need to have a strict attendance policy or else truancies and absences go through the roof. We will keep our attendance policy until someone threatens to sue."

You should start a What's wrong with Education & how to fix it, thread.

We're going off on a tangent

 

[franklin]

Why don't we then fight back against these sweat shops in the only way these companies will listen: Import taxes. Put a high enough import tax on items made in sweat shops and imported to America, and they will shut those shops down overnight.

Beggar thy neighbor is great policy if you like great depressions.

 

[franklin]

I am a slave to my student loans. I HAVE to make over $120,000 just to stay alive. If I make $120,000, after I pay taxes and my student loans, I have about $43,000 to live on. Quite the extravagent Dr's life. When I worked in North Philly, I had patients that their grandparents had gotten on welfare, their parents had lived off welfare, and now they were doing the exact same thing. Three generations that had never worked a day in their lives or filed a tax return. And this was COMMON.

Sounds like you have pretty large student loans. Glad I threw my DAT book in the trash and hit the job market instead.

Obama and Bush both tried fixing this alleged student loan issue (which is way overblown ). IBR capped payments at 15% of income with loan forgiveness after 25 years and Obama tried to reduce it to a 10% cap with 20 year forgiveness. Living under debt burden sucks, see if this link can help you out: https://studentaid.ed.gov/repay-loans/understand/plans/income-based

 

[One Brow]

Disagree (which doesn't happen often).

The safety net is exactly what is perpetuating this problem.

Perhaps it's that the safety net is partial? In countries where it's fuller, you low-wage workers don't suffer like they do here.

 

[franklin]

Perhaps it's that the safety net is partial? In countries where it's fuller, you low-wage workers don't suffer like they do here.

And since we have to take care of them anyway...

The issue I have with raising the safety net is it effectively subsidizes Walmart type wages. The higher you raise the safety net the lower wages people with no options can afford to work for. The market will adjust accordingly.

The better route IMO is reversing the long decline in organized labor law and empower labor to unite and fight. Walmart workers is all it would take for every other retailer to fall in line or lose good workers.

 

[One Brow]

Obamacare will kill small businesses just as fast as any republican policies.

What's "small"? Business with less than 50 employees are not affected at all.

One part of Obamacare is a 2.5% medical device tax. This is a tax on REVENUE, not profit. So, if you own a medical device lab, and your profit margin is 5%, you just got a 50% tax.

Or, you pass the 2.5% increase on to the customer.

 

[One Brow]

Can't a lot of the blame, especially for teachers, be blamed on the unions? They are supposed to represent the teachers. Yet, the union leaders are getting paid a lot more than 30K, but the teachers aren't.

Again, it's not the right's fault that the union leaders sold out the teachers.

Past of the deregulation process was the slow, systemic neutering of the unions. My college has an adjunct union I belong to, and what some of it's leaders do takes skills and connections most teachers don't have.