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Goodbye Burke

[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]Atlanta Hawks
Boston Celtics
Charlotte Bobcats
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Dallas Mavericks
Denver Nuggets
Detroit Pistons
Golden State Warriors
Houston Rockets
Indiana Pacers
LA Clippers
LA Lakers
Memphis Grizzlies
Miami Heat
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Jersey Nets
New Orleans Hornets
New York Knicks
Oklahoma City Thunder
Orlando Magic
Philadelphia Sixers
Phoenix Suns
Portland Trail Blazers
Sacramento Kings
San Antonio Spurs
Toronto Raptors
Utah Jazz
Washington Wizards [/td]
[td]J. Teague
J. Crawford
S. Livingston
K. Walker
K. Hinrich
K. Irving
J. Calderon
T. Lawson
B. Jennings
S. Curry
P. Beverley
G. Hill
C. Paul
S. Blake
M. Conley
M. Chalmers
B. Knight
R. Rubio
J. Holiday
P. Prigioni
R. Westbrook
J. Nelson
M. Carter-Williams
E. Bledsoe
D. Lillard
I. Thomas
T. Parker
K. Lowry
T. Burke
J. Wall[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Now take a look at the quality guys on the bench/injured Rose, Rondo etc
https://espn.go.com/nba/depth/_/type/full

Add Exum and Smart to this list next year(not to mention guys like Schroeder.

PGs are the most replaceable position. There are simply so many decent pgs that I wouldn't lose sleep over losing Burke. Right now the lakers need a pg(only because they stood by Nash) and I bet they would be willing to pay nicely for Burke.
 
heyhey said:
[table="width: 500"]
[tr]
[td]Atlanta Hawks
Boston Celtics
Charlotte Bobcats
Chicago Bulls
Cleveland Cavaliers
Dallas Mavericks
Denver Nuggets
Detroit Pistons
Golden State Warriors
Houston Rockets
Indiana Pacers
LA Clippers
LA Lakers
Memphis Grizzlies
Miami Heat
Milwaukee Bucks
Minnesota Timberwolves
New Jersey Nets
New Orleans Hornets
New York Knicks
Oklahoma City Thunder
Orlando Magic
Philadelphia Sixers
Phoenix Suns
Portland Trail Blazers
Sacramento Kings
San Antonio Spurs
Toronto Raptors
Utah Jazz
Washington Wizards [/td]
[td]J. Teague
J. Crawford
S. Livingston
K. Walker
K. Hinrich
K. Irving
J. Calderon
T. Lawson
B. Jennings
S. Curry
P. Beverley
G. Hill
C. Paul
S. Blake
M. Conley
M. Chalmers
B. Knight
R. Rubio
J. Holiday
P. Prigioni
R. Westbrook
J. Nelson
M. Carter-Williams
E. Bledsoe
D. Lillard
I. Thomas
T. Parker
K. Lowry
T. Burke
J. Wall[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Now take a look at the quality guys on the bench/injured Rose, Rondo etc
https://espn.go.com/nba/depth/_/type/full

Add Exum and Smart to this list next year(not to mention guys like Schroeder.

PGs are the most replaceable position. There are simply so many decent pgs that I wouldn't lose sleep over losing Burke. Right now the lakers need a pg(only because they stood by Nash) and I bet they would be willing to pay nicely for Burke.
Click to expand...

This is a great point. BUT, we were 1-14 without Burke. We have been 5-7 with him. That is special. Toss in the fact that he might not ever be a max player? Wow. I don't trade that for anything...ok, I trade it for LeBron, Durrant and maybe one or two other players. Burke is a special player that could be relatively cheap and he makes everyone around him better and he doesn't turn the ball over, and his passing has shocked me...11 games in. That's incredible. Not many players do that. So, Burke is untouchable for me. I trade away Kanter, Burks, Williams, Jefferson before I touch Burke to assure losing games.

Smart is not a good enough shooter, too many TO's and not enough assists. So, no, I don't want Smart over Burke.
 
The only PG's I would take over Burke are:

Irving, Paul, Westbrook, Lillard. That's it. Four. Toss in the fact that those four players will be or are max players, and I don't know if I want to pay my PG max money. If I can have Burke for 10 per, Hayward at 12 per, Favors at 12 per, Parker at max, I'd take that over one of those four, and losing Favors or Hayward.

The real kicker in all of this is that the Jazz HAVE to get a superstar this draft.
 
green said:
This is a great point. BUT, we were 1-14 without Burke. We have been 5-7 with him. That is special. Toss in the fact that he might not ever be a max player? Wow. I don't trade that for anything...ok, I trade it for LeBron, Durrant and maybe one or two other players. Burke is a special player that could be relatively cheap and he makes everyone around him better and he doesn't turn the ball over, and his passing has shocked me...11 games in. That's incredible. Not many players do that. So, Burke is untouchable for me. I trade away Kanter, Burks, Williams, Jefferson before I touch Burke to assure losing games.

Smart is not a good enough shooter, too many TO's and not enough assists. So, no, I don't want Smart over Burke.
Click to expand...

We were 1-14 with Lucas and Tinsley during the hardest part of our schedule. Comparing Burkes record to Lucas does not impress me. Don't get me wrong you can see by the eyeball test that he is good but not above average.
 
green said:
The only PG's I would take over Burke are:

Irving, Paul, Westbrook, Lillard. That's it. Four. Toss in the fact that those four players will be or are max players, and I don't know if I want to pay my PG max money. If I can have Burke for 10 per, Hayward at 12 per, Favors at 12 per, Parker at max, I'd take that over one of those four, and losing Favors or Hayward.

The real kicker in all of this is that the Jazz HAVE to get a superstar this draft.
Click to expand...

If you're right(I don't think you are)that Burke is the 5th best PG in the league then we are going to win a lot. I would say that he is 15-20 and with the rest of our talent we will win too much. Evans is playing well enough that trading Marvin won't be that big of a deal. Jefferson is clearly not why we are winning. Hayward has probably helped us lose more than win. So who do you trade to get a good draft pick. Favors?
 
heyhey said:
If you're right(I don't think you are)that Burke is the 5th best PG in the league then we are going to win a lot. I would say that he is 15-20 and with the rest of our talent we will win too much. Evans is playing well enough that trading Marvin won't be that big of a deal. Jefferson is clearly not why we are winning. Hayward has probably helped us lose more than win. So who do you trade to get a good draft pick. Favors?
Click to expand...

So why not trade the Jefferson, Williams, or even Hayward(since he wants more money than he's worth).

I don't think Burke is a top 5 PG, but I think he'll be in that area in the next 3 years. The proper way to tank is keep the good young talent and trade the veterans, not the other way around.
 
da ThRONe said:
So why not trade the Jefferson, Williams, or even Hayward(since he wants more money than he's worth).

I don't think Burke is a top 5 PG, but I think he'll be in that area in the next 3 years. The proper way to tank is keep the good young talent and trade the veterans, not the other way around.
Click to expand...

I'd trade Marvin and Burke. Marvin isn't good enough that his absence alone will guarantee losses. Jefferson doesn't really change much. Hayward is completely neutralized without a good pg.
 
green said:
This is a great point. BUT, we were 1-14 without Burke. We have been 5-7 with him. That is special. Toss in the fact that he might not ever be a max player? Wow. I don't trade that for anything...ok, I trade it for LeBron, Durrant and maybe one or two other players. Burke is a special player that could be relatively cheap and he makes everyone around him better and he doesn't turn the ball over, and his passing has shocked me...11 games in. That's incredible. Not many players do that. So, Burke is untouchable for me. I trade away Kanter, Burks, Williams, Jefferson before I touch Burke to assure losing games.

Smart is not a good enough shooter, too many TO's and not enough assists. So, no, I don't want Smart over Burke.
Click to expand...


Like hey hey said....... having tinsley and lucas for point guard contributed more to the 1-14 start than missing burke did.

You could put lowry, dragic, bledsoe, calderon, or just about any other point guard on our team (plus the schedule getting easier) and see a similar turnaround as the one we had when burke came back.
And dont forget that evans and marvin were injured too so it wasn't just burke getting healthy that made us better.

As far as burke being cheap........ If he is as good as alot of people believe then i think we will have to MAX him. With his mom and dad tweeting all the stuff that they tweet and just the type of guy i feel burke is, he is gonna want to get paid! I think he has a big ego attached to him
 
I never said Burke was a top 5 PG, I just said there only 4 PG's that I'd want instead of him. I don't think Burke is a top 5 PG. I don't think he will ever be a max guy. BUT, I do think he is a leader. And we haven't had a leader since Stockton and Malone were here. I do think Burke could be a Fisher PG at worst, which is fantastic. How many Derrick Fisher's are out there? Guys who defend, can hit the big shot, great leaders/teammates and are affordable? Not many. Why give that away? Why move that 11 games into his career? You don't do that. That would be crazy. That would be stupid.

The players to move are Kanter (because his alfense doesn't fit). Hayward/Burks because you can't have two starting SG's on the same team. Jefferson because I don't see a future here with him. Marvin would be last on my list, because I think he is a good player to have around, and I think he will be affordable as well. So, I don't move Marvin unless I get something good back in return.

To move Burke now is just dumb. Especially when you have other players to move that weaken the team in the short term (Kanter, Burks, Jefferson) but by moving them you help yourself in the long term.
 
As far as Burke getting the max, good for him. If he turns out to be that good, then great. The Jazz will have a great problem on their hands. I want all our players to be max players, because then you are doing something right. Even if you have to trade them or let them walk, if you can do nothing but bring guys to your team who will become max players, then holy ****, you will be the best team ever. Give me more young guys that I will have to pay the max to. Give me all of them. I'll gladly take them.
 
Trading Kanter right now would be a big mistake, imo. He will be worth more than Burke even if burke performs well. Bigs with touch are rare. If we give Kanter a year to mature we will be very glad that we did.
 
heyhey said:
Trading Kanter right now would be a big mistake, imo. He will be worth more than Burke even if burke performs well. Bigs with touch are rare. If we give Kanter a year to mature we will be very glad that we did.
Click to expand...

Unless we are blown away by an offer, it probably does not make sense to trade any of the young guys at this point.
 
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