On a serious note, ave you volunteered to teach? If you haven't, your complaints are not valid in my view. If you aren't willing to do anything about it, STFU.
I was pissed when I got a new calling and they released me as EQ teacher. Most of our guys do exactly what Thriller's guys do: "Uh, can I have a volunteer to read? Let's start with the first paragraph there...". No discussion, no thought, no preparation, no spiritual enhancement. I can't freaking stand it. I have no idea if I'm a good teacher or not, but at the very worst, I get a TON out of the lesson when I teach it. It's never from me, or my thoughts, it's always something I get from someone else in the class; an idea, thought, or even vibe.
tl;dr -- ****ty teachers really are ****ty.
Raises an interesting question: is it better to half-*** it or to stay away completely, in terms of eternal salvation? Is it better to go boating instead of church, for example, or to go to church and either gossip or in some other way have bad feelings towards people in the ward? Is it better to treat church as a meat market so it is tolerable, or to ask some girl out to go to the zoo or whatever on Sunday instead?
Since I really have no idea what God thinks about this question, I just go with my gut. Usually, I'll ask myself what I would do as a father or how I would judge my child given the same scenario. Maybe that's totally wrong and I'm going to fry for it, but I don't think so. I would say that
I know I won't fry for it, but people who claim to
know things about religion need to have their faces rubbed in my butt-cleavage.
tl;dr -- Do whatever you're comfortable with, but don't kid yourself on what "comfortable with" means.
My wife and I had this discussion because it involved her brother at the time...
... So we have discussed the question of whether she did him a favor, or set him up for damnation, by introducing the church to him and helping him find his way to baptism.
This wasn't
a real conversation, was it? I feel like I know you fairly well, and you don't strike me as a gloom/doom kind of Mo. Can you imagine a God that is so black and white? Can you imagine a God that doesn't know what the circumstances of each and every one of his children's lives are/were? I have a feeling that "damnation", if there really is such a thing (I seriously have my doubts), would be reserved for the worst of the worst of the worst. I don't think that the world, in all its infinite nastiness, has ever produced someone worthy of damnation. (before you jump on my sack about Hitler, etc., you have to remember that at some point, every person on this planet was a good person, had good intentions, and had love in their hearts. Over time, and due to who-knows-what, they somehow went a different path. Who knows why or how, but I don't believe anyone has ever willfully chosen to be worthy of true damnation.)
tl;dr -- Don't be silly, of course she didn't set him up for damnation. Probably.
We are to be judged based on our knowledge, at least partly, and how well we held to those covenants we have entered into, at least the way I understand it,
Stupid scenario: When the Mo's found me I was a big time smoker, and when I promised that I'd quit, it was a piece of cake. I seriously had maybe a day or two that were rough, but other than that, it was easy as pie and I never thought about it. My hypothetical neighbor on the other hand, smoked just as long as I did and quit the same day I did. He made a wonderful effort, and he went through the temple and made the same promises I did, but he thought about smoking every day. It was a struggle for him, big time. He finally succumbed to his addictive nature and picked up the habit again. Question for you: Because my brain and body luckily had no problem kicking the habit, (see also that I, as a person/human/spiritual being essentially had nothing to do with it) I will have preferential treatment at the judgment seat versus my neighbor who struggled with it for years? Assume my neighbor was a STUD in every other sense and lived his life better than most Mo's. Does it still mean that he'll receive a lesser degree of glory than me?
tl;dr -- That's crazy talk, man. Would you damn your own child for breaking a promise?
so my take is that it is better to not know the church than to join or enter into covenants if you are not going to go at it full-steam ahead. I think partially active is worse than totally non-active status, to put it another way. I have no idea if that is right, and am very open to other ideas on the topic. But it seems to me you are better off just dropping the whole thing rather than half-assing it and piling judgement on top of judgement, so to speak.
Again, I'm surprised that this is your line of thinking. I'd rather watch my child try something and fail, even if it's over and over, than to watch them just say, "You know what, I'm not any good at *insert something stupid here*, and I'd rather not put my *** on the line for any reason -- so I'll just play it safe and do nothing". I'm not a real religious guy, but it seems to me that that kind of thinking screwed over 1/3 of the host of Heaven.
tl;dr -- That's bull ****, man. Every winner in this world failed a million times before the finally won.
You raise another tangential question in my mind. Is it right to allow someone to be baptized mere weeks after being introduced to the church at all? Are they being set up for success or failure. To your point, a lot depends on the ward, and is that enough to hinge the eternal salvation of another individual on just so we can up the church's official tally by 1 on any given Saturday? Would it be better to get them to associate with the church, attend a lot of meetings, maybe give them the year they normally have to be a member before attending the temple to attend meetings and decide if they want to commit to the church? I know some people can make that commitment from the get-go, but many cannot. Is that fair to the many?
I've already been far too long winded in this post, so I'll sum this one up: What's "fair" or "not fair" isn't really up to you, is it? I would think you would be elated that you were given the opportunity to show someone a different path; one that you both believed would change their lives for the better. It's up to them what they choose to do with that opportunity, not you.
I get that single wards are met so you can find "the one" but I believe there should be a little more to it. Also maybe if you gave these "ugly girls" a chance you might find out one of them is the one,
The best part about this whole thing is that there's a site called
www.KnittingFanz.com and there are a bunch of girls from Thriller's ward on there. One of them was bored in RS today and made a thread about how tragically ugly the men in the ward were, especially that HOG that is a school teacher.
However, since you seem to believe the point of going is to check out hotties like its a club, you might try digging a little deeper.
That is one thing I never understood about singles wards; it's a glorified meat market. I think I attended one or two in my early days to see a friend leave or come back from a mission, and even then I felt awkward being there; almost like God was looking down going, "You gotta be kidding me, right?"
meh maybe I'll just stick this one through, try to make the best of this lottery bound ward, and then bail once the school year ends to take my talents to South Beach Orem...
Seriously though, meh, I'll try to make the best of this situation. It's bad news bears though. The ward makes some of those Brazilian wards with 600 members baptized and 45 members active I saw on my mission look like they're close knit and well organized...
At least Jazzfanz didn't fail to destroy my boredom. Nor did it fail in enlightening me and giving me pause in my reasoning. I'm reflecting upon stuff today and we'll see if reevaluation is necessary. I'm just in "meh" when it comes to church stuff these days. NFL is so much more entertaining. And walking outside and cruising up and down Provo Canyon is so beautiful.
Doesn't matter if you stay or go, the ward will be what you make of it, for the most part. One thing in life that is tried and true, and very rarely wrong, is the old saying about the grass not being greener on the other side.
All that being said, I was in bigb's ward for two years or so and I have never wanted to blow my brains out more in my life. Hate is a strong word, but it doesn't even come close to describing my feelings toward that ward. He can confirm, as he's still there. Of course, he's not half the *** hole that I am, so maybe he won't.
Great thread, Thriller. Would read again.
