Remember when Obama made fun of Romney about Russia?.....
- Thread starter Beantown
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Both sides have long ago abandoned any semblance of respectability. It is all BS propaganda and sensationalism.
If you want to think one side is not as bad as the other then fine. I do not.
Dude... Armaggeddon began when Obama was first elected office. Mitt Christ couldn't gain the upper hand when it mattered, and we're now all damned eternally.
When we get to those instances feel free to bash the left.
Though the left doesn't have anyone of Sean Hannity's caliber in taking things out of context.
Goodie, maybe the right and the other warmongers can bang the Russian drum and start another cold war. I miss the nostalgia of having 1000 nukes pointed at us.
John Kerry seems to be doing a fine job of that.
He's a warmonger too. Obama making him Sec. of State is easily one of the many low points of his presidency.
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
Who said war is what the right wants?
Perhaps all we wanted somebody with an idea of what a good foreign policy would look like.
I don't necessarily think Romney would have been that guy, but I'm damned sure Obama isn't either. He's bungled this, Syria and Iran. It's a joke how pathetic we look right now. I don't care what side you're on, left or right, there is no defending our foreign policy.
Maybe we should quit worrying about which side is right and just try to fix the damn thing. Everybody needs to put their pride away for a little bit and work together, we might get something done then.
Perhaps all we wanted somebody with an idea of what a good foreign policy would look like.
I don't necessarily think Romney would have been that guy, but I'm damned sure Obama isn't either. He's bungled this, Syria and Iran. It's a joke how pathetic we look right now. I don't care what side you're on, left or right, there is no defending our foreign policy.
Maybe we should quit worrying about which side is right and just try to fix the damn thing. Everybody needs to put their pride away for a little bit and work together, we might get something done then.
Well if that's the case then I say we invade China first so as to lock Russia in with nowhere to run. The last thing Us Warmongers need is Ruskies fleeing to a foreign country. Unless it's North Kurry of course, then by all means please do go.
Way way way WAY wrong road.
Think less "you got nothing, so bring your worst", and way more "totes magotes, bro"
Hantlers
Well-Known Member
Syria crosses the "red line", we subtly threaten and then of course do nothing. They still have chemical weapons. Just makes us look weaker now. Either ignore it, or take action if you think they did something wrong.
Iran gets unfrozen funds, and then decides to keep its nuclear program. They won't give up their research or centrifuges. Awesome. Don't give them that money. I just don't agree with that decision.
DutchJazzer
Banned
dont know why people worship OBEEZY.
Take action? Like what, bombing the hell out of them? How often does that need to be done before it isn't effective. Or do we send troops there and invade yet another Middle Eastern country. Since when is it our job to police that area of the world anyway, or any area of the world for that matter. Do we side with the rebels, or the dictatorship? If we side with the rebels, are we responsible for whatever nutjob government they put in place if they take over? Anyone remember Afghanistan after supporting those whackos in the 80s.
The Iran situation is even more difficult. What exactly are we supposed to do? The idea behind unfreezing assets is to hopefully get them to compromise. If they don't, they can just freeze more of their assets and we'll be right back to where we were, which was nowhere. If Israel wants to fight them let them. The last thing this country needs is another war with a much more powerful middle eastern country.
But let's keep butting into the affairs of these crappy countries. Anyone remember how the current regime in Iran got into power?
LogGrad98
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Nate makes a good point. A big problem is we make too many empty threats. If we are going to try to draw a line, then we damn well better be ready to do something when that line gets crossed. Otherwise we begin looking like the ***** kid who always makes up/points out the rules but sucks *** playing pickup ball. Better be ready to back it up, or stop making worse than useless ultimatums.
Syria is behind schedule, but the chemical weapons are leaving the country. We are getting what we asked for. I don't see how that is "bungling".
https://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/04/us-syria-crisis-chemical-idUSBREA230W120140304
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/02/28/iran-nuclear-economic-advance/5835935/
To my understanding, it was never on the table that Iran would completely give up on nuclear power. It's increased it's stocks of low-enrichment uranium, but there is no evidence it has any highly-enriched uranium.
That was Russias baby.
Another point of view: the invasion is a sign of long-term weakness, not strength.
https://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/03/02/3349241/crimea-ukraine-putin-dreamer/#
https://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/03/02/3349241/crimea-ukraine-putin-dreamer/#
framer
Well-Known Member
Russia has been refighting the Cold War since the day we got involved in Kosovo. In their mind it would be like Russia sending troops to Mexico to get involved in one of the many cartel wars there. Can you imagine the appearance of Russian gunships laying waste to a quarter of Mexico City? Americans would probably be OK with that, right?
Russia was pissed and has remained pissed since that took place. We enjoyed immensely good relations with the Russians before that (lived in Russia, treated very well.) Keep that in mind when that idiot Hillary Clinton showed up with her "reset" button. It was the wrong person (her husband was the one who went to war in Kosovo), with the wrong message, at the wrong time. They didn't even bother to get the Russian right on the button label. "Hey we really care about you and want better relations, but not enough give a damn about getting the one damn Russian word "reset" right." Can anyone here give me a good reason why we got so involved in Kosovo?
Furthermore, moving to Georgia. That actually was "all about oil!" and securing the natural gas lines located in South Ossetia and Abkhaza. Russia now occupies them and UN inspectors are not allowed in. Should we have went to War here? No. These places are crap holes and their people cut deals with the Russians. There is exactly no American interest in these areas of Georgia. Also, we were pretty tied up in our financial collapse right then and there was little will for stopping Putin over those geographical nothingburgers.
Syria was a big deal not because Syria itself, but because of the way we played it. You set red lines, you enforce red lines. That is the way the game is played. It was then Putin established who we were. He has absolutely no concern of what the United States can do to him. None. As far as Europe goes, he knows he can just shut off the gas and let them live off their solar and wind power for a couple of months until they shut up. Ironically France is immune from this because they are heavily leveraged with nuclear power. But they are still France.
I suspect that Putin does not want to annex Crimea because then he wouldn't hold his slim voting majority he uses to get puppets elected in Ukraine. He will demand permanent ownership of their base there, demand that his puppet be restored to power, and likely demand more easements for his gas lines going into Europe (likely what the whole adventure was about.) He's going to keep pumping his sweet, sweet gas into Europe while they continue mucking around with energy solutions that don't work until he becomes rich enough to keep buying the United States piece by piece. Kind of like China.
Russia was pissed and has remained pissed since that took place. We enjoyed immensely good relations with the Russians before that (lived in Russia, treated very well.) Keep that in mind when that idiot Hillary Clinton showed up with her "reset" button. It was the wrong person (her husband was the one who went to war in Kosovo), with the wrong message, at the wrong time. They didn't even bother to get the Russian right on the button label. "Hey we really care about you and want better relations, but not enough give a damn about getting the one damn Russian word "reset" right." Can anyone here give me a good reason why we got so involved in Kosovo?
Furthermore, moving to Georgia. That actually was "all about oil!" and securing the natural gas lines located in South Ossetia and Abkhaza. Russia now occupies them and UN inspectors are not allowed in. Should we have went to War here? No. These places are crap holes and their people cut deals with the Russians. There is exactly no American interest in these areas of Georgia. Also, we were pretty tied up in our financial collapse right then and there was little will for stopping Putin over those geographical nothingburgers.
Syria was a big deal not because Syria itself, but because of the way we played it. You set red lines, you enforce red lines. That is the way the game is played. It was then Putin established who we were. He has absolutely no concern of what the United States can do to him. None. As far as Europe goes, he knows he can just shut off the gas and let them live off their solar and wind power for a couple of months until they shut up. Ironically France is immune from this because they are heavily leveraged with nuclear power. But they are still France.
I suspect that Putin does not want to annex Crimea because then he wouldn't hold his slim voting majority he uses to get puppets elected in Ukraine. He will demand permanent ownership of their base there, demand that his puppet be restored to power, and likely demand more easements for his gas lines going into Europe (likely what the whole adventure was about.) He's going to keep pumping his sweet, sweet gas into Europe while they continue mucking around with energy solutions that don't work until he becomes rich enough to keep buying the United States piece by piece. Kind of like China.