2014-15 outlook on Alec Burks: Starter or 6th man?

[Stifle Tower]

My sincere apologies for wasting some space on the internet. I will be more conscientious about the problems it may cause next time I think of starting a thread about the breakout player of this year's Jazz team.

Only Beantown can start stupid threads. He's earned that right by virtue of his constant practice and unparalleled "success" in doing so.
AS to the question, while I do agree Burks COULD be a starter, I love him coming off the bench: if he gets 30+ mins/per. What that entails is starting a replacement for RJ at SF (hopefully a "3 and D" type guy) and bringing him out at the 6 min mark. Then insert Burks and slide Hayward over to SF.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

These stats all miss some of the context, for sure. We don't observe in the boxscore where these shots were taken from, how they were defended, whether they were taken as a last resort, as the end result of well-executed offense, in transition, off an offensive rebound, etc. I agree that drawing fouls is a decent indicator of pressure put on opposing defenses.

There are better ways to correct for that than counting free throw attempts as 0 possessions used. I find it hard to believe you'd take the guy producing 10 points on 11 possessions over the guy producing 8 points on 5, just because of the 5 fouls he's drawn. Again, if those fouls were worth so much, (7.6 points, as calculated previously), there'd never be any reason to challenge any shot where a foul were remotely possible.

Alec is one of the exceptions that proves the rule IMO. He's a nice player, but he certainly isn't the 6th best scorer at the 2.

He might not be the sixth best scorer at the two. We don't know for sure because he doesn't play as many minutes or take as many shots as some of the other guys. However, he does shoot a higher percentage from the field than most twos, he is adequate from three and he is among the very best at his position in terms of getting to the line. So, while if he played a bigger role we don't know what would happen in terms of his production, this year with the minutes he played and the shots he took, he was very, very, good in relation to other twos in the league and I don't think even most of his own team's fans understand that or give him his due.

Let's not forget what's being lost in all of this - he's 22 and a young 22 (in terms of playing time in the NBA) at that. Yet he's putting up numbers that are putting him with the top players at his position, most, if not all, of whom are older and more experienced than him.

It's the most basic of stats, but Burks shot 46% from the field this season. SGs in the NBA just don't do that unless they are good. He did it in what was really his first season as a rotation player.

 

[fishonjazz]

He might not be the sixth best scorer at the two. We don't know for sure because he doesn't play as many minutes or take as many shots as some of the other guys. However, he does shoot a higher percentage from the field than most twos, he is adequate from three and he is among the very best at his position in terms of getting to the line. So, while if he played a bigger role we don't know what would happen in terms of his production, this year with the minutes he played and the shots he took, he was very, very, good in relation to other twos in the league and I don't think even most of his own team's fans understand that or give him his due.

Let's not forget what's being lost in all of this - he's 22 and a young 22 (in terms of playing time in the NBA) at that. Yet he's putting up numbers that are putting him with the top players at his position, most, if not all, of who are older than him.

Great post

 

[fishonjazz]

The best argument for why Burks should not be considered one of the top 5-10 scoring two guards in the league is basically....... "because he is alec burks"

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Really, the next step for Burks is to play 35 minutes a night and see if he can keep up the efficient scoring while getting 5 boards and 5 assists a night.

 

[fishonjazz]

Really, the next step for Burks is to play 35 minutes a night and see if he can keep up the efficient scoring while getting 5 boards and 5 assists a night.

Agreed.

Hopefully he gets the chance and succeeds at it.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

The best argument for why Burks should not be considered one of the top 5-10 scoring two guards in the league is basically....... "because he is alec burks"

Let's get serious here. How could he be one of the best scoring twos in the league. Richard effing Jefferson started ahead of him. /argument

 

[HighlandHomie]

Really, the next step for Burks is to play 35 minutes a night and see if he can keep up the efficient scoring while getting 5 boards and 5 assists a night.

No doubt. That's why I'd like to see him start. He can really put some pressure on opposing defenses and wear them out if he remain close to as efficient as he was the 2nd half of this season. That boy's got some juice in his legs. Can't wait to see what the offseason brings.

 

[8]

He better be one of the best scoring 2 guards, cuz scoring is his best attribute.

 

[fishonjazz]

His last 10 games he has averaged over 30 minutes per game and is shooting 56% from the field according to espn.

 

[Doublea]

The best argument for why Burks should not be considered one of the top 5-10 scoring two guards in the league is basically....... "because he is alec burks"

I think a better excuse is that he's coming off the bench. Let's see what he can do starting, if he puts up those numbers then he's going to get a lot of recognition.

 

[Doublea]

In the starts that we've seen Burks, which is a only a few... It looks like he doesn't try to hard, just is in the right places for 3's, or catching the ball and going to the rim. It's great to see. I, personally, can see Burks being part of a big 3.

 

[fishonjazz]

Good shooters/scorers will score well in most of these shooting stats.

This is my favorite part.

So according to you "good shooters/scorers will score well in most of these shooting stats" and alec burks is near the top of the league at his position in some of the shooting stats, then wouldn't that mean that he is one of the top shooters/scorers in the league?

 

[fishonjazz]

I think a better excuse is that he's coming off the bench.

True, and I agree that if he starts and becomes a number one option that there is a decent chance that he will get exposed like Hayward did.

But so far it seems from the eyeball test that the more minutes he plays and the more opportunities he gets, the better he gets. Maybe that will come to a screeching halt if he gets to start.

Too bad we didn't have a throw away season to use to find out.

 

[GVC]

This is my favorite part.

So according to you "good shooters/scorers will score well in most of these shooting stats" and alec burks is near the top of the league at his position in some of the shooting stats, then wouldn't that mean that he is one of the top shooters/scorers in the league?

Nope. Good shooter ==> Good stats does not imply Good stats ==> Good shooter.

And does anyone actually think starting Trey-Alec-Gordo isn't a defensive disaster? There's no way a team starting those 3 together on the perimeter is ever winning anything.

 

[fishonjazz]

Nope. Good shooter ==> Good stats does not imply Good stats ==> Good shooter.

And does anyone actually think starting Trey-Alec-Gordo isn't a defensive disaster?

That we can agree on.

the burke brothers are both really bad and haywards adequate defense at the two would get worse at the 3

 

[Stifle Tower]

True, and I agree that if he starts and becomes a number one option that there is a decent chance that he will get exposed like Hayward did.

But so far it seems from the eyeball test that the more minutes he plays and the more opportunities he gets, the better he gets. Maybe that will come to a screeching halt if he gets to start.

Too bad we didn't have a throw away season to use to find out.

Or Hayward returns to his valuable role of last season. Guess it really comes down to defense. Can Burks/Hayward put up even passable resistance against other SG/SF's? If they can, Alec can create offense and when teams collapse to stop him, the ball goes out to Hayward for the 3. Take the ball out of Hayward's hands and I think he returns to the 40% 3-PT shooter he was. My other concern would be at PG, If Alec truly becomes the dominant guard and is driving and finishing or kicking it out, then perhaps Utah needs a better shooting PG.

 

[Doublea]

Or Hayward returns to his valuable role of last season. Guess it really comes down to defense. Can Burks/Hayward put up even passable resistance against other SG/SF's? If they can, Alec can create offense and when teams collapse to stop him, the ball goes out to Hayward for the 3. Take the ball out of Hayward's hands and I think he returns to the 40% 3-PT shooter he was. My other concern would be at PG, If Alec truly becomes the dominant guard and is driving and finishing or kicking it out, then perhaps Utah needs a better shooting PG.

Trey will get better. I think Haywards percentage would go up, but he's also changed his shot and his left hand has been influencing it this season.

 

[seattlejazzfan]

Nope. Good shooter ==> Good stats does not imply Good stats ==> Good shooter.

And does anyone actually think starting Trey-Alec-Gordo isn't a defensive disaster? There's no way a team starting those 3 together on the perimeter is ever winning anything.

And this is the problem. In general, young players don't defend. How to they keep their good young players around for 4-5 years until they are good enough defenders to compete? None of the three are lazy. The effort is there, IMO. They just need experience defending in the NBA. Can the Jazz wait?

 

[Jazz4ever]

Or Hayward returns to his valuable role of last season. Guess it really comes down to defense. Can Burks/Hayward put up even passable resistance against other SG/SF's? If they can, Alec can create offense and when teams collapse to stop him, the ball goes out to Hayward for the 3. Take the ball out of Hayward's hands and I think he returns to the 40% 3-PT shooter he was. My other concern would be at PG, If Alec truly becomes the dominant guard and is driving and finishing or kicking it out, then perhaps Utah needs a better shooting PG.

But then why not just put Alec at PG, put Hayward at SG, and sign a 3&D SF like Ariza? I know Alec failed at PG last year, but we also had Al Jefferson as our first option who is a non pick and roll big.