Clothing

[Jazz Spazz]

First, that there is no difference is the default position. I'm not aware of any studies that have tested this directly.

There is some research that is tangentially relevant.

https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=djglp

Among the conclusions (there is more detailed support in the body of the work):





https://psycnet.apa.org/journals/cou/34/2/186/

Clothing is absent from the list of risk factors.




https://irs.sagepub.com/content/39/4/373.short

How revealing the clothing of an athlete is has very little to do with the level of harassment.

I say the default position is that there is a difference and you must prove there isn't.

I don't know what you are trying to argue, but I in no way have stated that harassment is mainly because of dress, I have stated that dress can affect harassment.
I have never once broached the subject of what the main motivation of harassment is, but have only stated more attention because of dress will increase the likelihood of some unwanted attention or harassment.

Your duke link supports my statements multiple times, but you seem intent to argue whatever it is you are arguing.

One of the referenced cases had this in it.

The plaintiff wore the uniform for two days and “received a number of sexual propositions and endured lewd comments and gestures. Humiliated by what occurred, [the plaintiff] was unable to perform her duties properly.” Eventually, the plaintiff was fired because she refused to wear the uniform.

Basically the woman was forced to wear a revealing "uniform" for her job and because of it was the recipient of what is described. Interestingly enough the woman stopped wearing the uniform in order to be free of this harassment. hmmmmmm

I've made my point, that's all.
You can continue arguing whatever it is you want with the wall, or some other poster or whomever you would like.
It's fairly obvious to me you want to proceed from my statements to argue the motivation of harassment and then reverse engineer it back to some statement of how clothing has absolutely nothing to do with harassment. That would be untrue, a small effect would still be something without being the main motivator.

If you want more, just look into the hooters cases, and keep in mind that your duke link mentions that changes in law and evidence for the most part do not allow evidence relating to the dress of the plaintiff in regards to the cases. It can be allowed and at times is referenced by the defense.

Also keep in mind, although I believe dress can change the odds of a harassment encounter I in no way place any sort of blame on the victim if such an encounter happens. Zero.

Carry on

 

[VINYLONE]

From what I can tell, if you are in an environment with males who can not control their sexual impulses, it makes no difference if the female wears a mini-skirt or a burka.

Many girls in India have learned this the hard way.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Since we've vaguely touched on sexual assault and what not, I thought I would offer this question to see what everybody thought.

Does having a hookup culture increase the chances of having a rape culture? Or in other words, does having a culture where hookups are accepted/encouraged lead to more sexual assault occurrences?

From a logical standpoint, I could actually see the hook-up culture lead to LESS rapes. Going off my *** here, but I'd bet some of the countries with the most strict sexual conduct have the highest rape rates.



FWIW One Brow has been on point for most of this thread.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Many girls in India have learned this the hard way.

Yup. Doesn't anyone remember high-school? I've just gone through it, and let me tell you-- there was minimal correlation between those who were raped, and those who dressed more revealingly.


I consider myself a feminist because I believe in gender equality. Any person who thinks that the feminist movement has nothing left to fight for is simply incorrect.

 

[VINYLONE]

....good points! The way you dress tells something about you. The way we dress can link us up with certain classes of persons, even though we may not practice what they practice or believe what they believe. People assume that we at least sympathize with the class of persons who dress that way. Can we blame them?
Manner of dress distinguishes not only policemen, firemen or nurses....it also distinguishes people whose occupation is dishonorable. Today prostitutes seldom wear shawls or veils. However, their very revealing, suggestive clothing now points even more plainly to the profession they practice. Among men, those who favor revolt or radical political action have also worn distinctive styles, and so do some homosexuals.

More plagiarism:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/comments-you-will-hear-3-16-03-wt-study

 

[LogGrad98]

More plagiarism:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/comments-you-will-hear-3-16-03-wt-study

It's easier when the thinking is already done for you, and perfectly at that.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Fwiw I hope I am blessed to raise a daughter one day, and I'll still advise her to not dress too revealingly. It won't be to stave off rape tho.

It honestly boggles my mind. C'mon Jazzfanz: if a rapist sees a girl walking alone at 2am, do you thinks he's gonna give a **** whether she's wearing high-waisted jean shorts and a low cut top, or a ****ing hijab? If anything the hijab girl might get more harassed, cuz they'll fling her clothing off, and try to decide if they're attracted to her.

 

[VINYLONE]

true story...

When I was a freshman/sophomore in high school my favorite T-shirt was a tight little number with "Easy Come" on the front and "Easy Go" on the back. Brought me lots of attention. I chose the occasions to wear it very judiciously... I had lots of fun with that one.

Pics or GTFO.

 

[VINYLONE]

She doesn't dress up like that for our anniversary, but to impress her friends she is all over it.

Damn. Sorry to hear.

 

[LogGrad98]

Damn. Sorry to hear.

Point is she knows she doesn't have to impress me anymore. She is comfortable around me in whatever. That isn't to say that she doesn't make the effort now and then, but she really feels the need to do so when trying to impress her friends from school.

 

[moevillini]

It honestly boggles my mind. C'mon Jazzfanz: if a rapist sees a girl walking alone at 2am, do you thinks he's gonna give a **** whether she's wearing high-waisted jean shorts and a low cut top, or a ****ing hijab? If anything the hijab girl might get more harassed, cuz they'll fling her clothing off, and try to decide if they're attracted to her.

but yet you think he might give a damn if he's attracted to her or not?

ROFLMFAO

 

[One Brow]

I say the default position is that there is a difference and you must prove there isn't.

Goody-goody-gumdrops for you. However, you were speaking of looking a this scientifically, and scientifically, the default position is the null hypothesis.

I don't know what you are trying to argue, but I in no way have stated that harassment is mainly because of dress, I have stated that dress can affect harassment.
I have never once broached the subject of what the main motivation of harassment is, but have only stated more attention because of dress will increase the likelihood of some unwanted attention or harassment.

Your duke link supports my statements multiple times, but you seem intent to argue whatever it is you are arguing.

One of the referenced cases had this in it.


Basically the woman was forced to wear a revealing "uniform" for her job and because of it was the recipient of what is described. Interestingly enough the woman stopped wearing the uniform in order to be free of this harassment. hmmmmmm

I've made my point, that's all.

If you want more, just look into the hooters cases, and keep in mind that your duke link mentions that changes in law and evidence for the most part do not allow evidence relating to the dress of the plaintiff in regards to the cases. It can be allowed and at times is referenced by the defense.

Also keep in mind, although I believe dress can change the odds of a harassment encounter I in no way place any sort of blame on the victim if such an encounter happens. Zero.

Carry on

You've made your point by noting that woman forced to dress in a manner she finds uncomfortable is subject to greater harassment, as if you think it disputes my point? Of course a woman who is uncomfortable when dressed provatively will be a target for harassment; it's the discomfort that attracts the harassers.

Still, I suppose it's very manly that you only support rape culture partially, by saying the women don't deserve harassment even though it's they can avoid it, if only they conform to your expectations. At least, it's common among men.

You've made your point, unconvincing and without evidence. I welcome our departure from the conversation.