This kinda pisses me off. Beg and give a lot? That's a laugh. First of all it was 6 systems(2 each from US, Netherlands, Germany) and Spain is sending 2 more. Each of those countries sent troops along with those systems to guard Turkey's border, including members of the US 5th infantry division. Each of those countries is funding the missions themselves. (see below)
link
You can laugh as much you want. Turkey begs for them since I learned reading. And I said pair as a figure of speech. I don't care the actual number.
Further the US has at her own expense deployed predator drones to find PKK positions in the Iraqi mountains.
All politics. Obviously you have never ever heard any claims that the US has also cooperates with PKK. There have been many Turkish Army generals who complained about the US playing double game with Turkish Army and PKK. Also many PKK captures that admitted they have received information whenever the US supposedly helped Turkish Army with PKK, it was the same with Israel's Herons many times. That's why Turkish Army insisted to produce their own unmanned aircrafts. It's one of the primary goals of Turkish defense industry.
First, all politics, again. It's the standard statements of Nato. Second, I'm not talking about fighting against ISIS, that's as easy as making some cake, both for Turkey and Nato. The problem is, they do not want it. Nato didn't want it at least, and Turkey still do not want it. Erdoğan had clearly strict relationships with Isis or proto-Isis groups. His government even did not call them
terrorists and made many statements that trying to justify and normalize the emergence of Isis. They only started to call them terrorist until very recently and raised their volume after Erdoğan's USA trip. He has changed his many statements since then towards more pro-American approach. Everyone knows in Turkey that he must have been warned strongly by Obama.
The fact is that Turkey could not effectively defend itself at it's current military spending levels if it wasn't a Nato member. Maybe you should ask a Ukrainian whether they would like to be a Nato member?
As much as I hate everything related to military, that's a dead wrong statement. It's not that Turkey begged for the Patriots because she has a weak army, it was a strategic element as Turkish army wanted to use Nato's benefits in the concrete. And don't get into misconceptions by comparing military spendings, Turkey definitely don't need to spend astronomic numbers like the US, China or Russia do. The whole concept of Turkish army is founded on being a defensive army. It's certainly the best and strongest army in the ME and one of the best defensive armies in the world. It won't attack or conquer anywhere but it can defense it's territory to a very high capacity. That includes against the heavy armies like Russia. Of course it wouldn't be easy but Turkey aint Ukraine, not even close. And like I said before, Nato won't do anything for Turkey that could potentially harm themselves. Even if there were a bigger mess to happen like WW3 some day, I doubt the whole Turkey-Nato alliance would stay strong to the bitter end. Both can betray each other in a matter of time, Turkey even may chose to go along with Russia, it's a subject which is being talked all the time in Turkey on all levels. Plus, the whole Turkish history is full of wars and conflicts with Nato/Europe countries, except only the US.
Go back and reread my post. I did not blame Turkey for ISIS. Whatever role Turkey had in facilitating the forces that would become ISIS I'm certain that that was not their goal. We cannot go back and change it now we can only move forward. The hostages are free and Turkey still has yet to meaningfully get involved(although will gladly accept our assistance).
Fair enough about you not blaming Turkey. And partially true that it didn't exactly go as they wanted. But I still believe they have current relationships with Isis. Because they are Sunni and when it comes to that, everything is secondary for Erdoğan.
About the hostages, I expressed that I didn't believe it was sincere, it was an excuse. But the 49 hostages being free now without a scratch is actually a sign of the Isis-Turkey relationships to me. Those monsters of monsters, Isis, respected Turkish hostages and they treated them as quests while they beheaded the most of their any other hostages. And I'm sure that the Turkish side requested it as their courtesy and assured them they are content to bargain about the hostages. There are two rumors now, Isis freed the hostages in exchange for, either freeing 180 Isis captives which Turkey had not have but had to collect from other countries, or promising not to join the western coalition.
But there are more to it I believe, there has to be. Because, right after Erdoğan returned from the US trip, he was very inclined towards the joining the coalition. Remember the US statements? They also have said that Turkey is now free of the hostage trouble and ready to participate and will be in the very front, implying the boots on the ground. Erdoğan's government also carried the same manners in Turkey for a few days, but for some reasons I can't figure out, they changed their approach all of a sudden and now they are urging the Assad condition. I don't get it honestly.
But anyway, I have no doubt that Erdoğan's primary goal was Assad from the beginning and they tried to use those groups including Isis for their plans. If you have any doubt about it, I will send you a pm about more of it, which I can't write here.
Having to launch fighters that burn excessive amounts of fuel from the Mediterranean makes a big difference on the US ability to mount an effective air campaign. If the US acted alone the whole world would be be screaming about the big bully.
Please tell me, when that stop the US before? You might be partially right about the strategy part but that doesn't change the fact that the US could do more, much more about Isis. And much before.
Srsly a bunch of nutjobs are on your border that the US is actively and has vowed to continue to protect. The US is acting in your interest.
That's what you don't understand, if Erdoğan wanted Isis dead, they would be now, he doesn't need the US for that, his soldiers on the borders are WATCHING Isis do their things with naked eyes.
I don't know what media you are referring to. I never hear about the flowering democracies of the middle east. Neither do I ever here anything good about Saudi Arabia.(literally nothing) All I ever hear is about the need to become energy independent and that we need to quit buying so much Saudi oil.
I should have used separate subjects when writing the US and the Media. I didn't mean to say the media loves Saudis and praise them. However, they both do these things,
The US and it's media do their best to make people loathe from everything related to the extreme Islamists and Muslim terrorists and they tell to the whole world big lies about saving Iraq, Syria, bringing democracy, freedom and happiness to them and purge the world from extreme monsters and bad people..
And this is the truth about the US, maybe not with the every issues but with the most.
they are absolutely in love with Saudi Arabia and are in the same bed with them in every world issues.
I never hear about the flowering democracies of the middle east.
I certainly didn't say the ME had flowering democracies, I meant the lies that the US and it's media(international media if you will) have been telling for the last 15 years. That all they want is bringing those values to the ME.
