What's new
By:

Why Don't the Jazz Sign Better Players to be a Better Team?

I'm not against tanking, BTW. I just know there are more ways of building a championship team than 1.
But 'tanking' seems to be the cheapest route. Especially if the fans continue to $upport the team.
How long will you $upport tanking? How long, until enough is enough. How long, until we #OccupyESA
 
KD's Framily said:
This made me flashback to how we let Korver, Millsap, and Carroll all walk for nothing.

Ugh.
Click to expand...

Why not also add Jefferson to your list? LOL.

Korver: admitted he passed up shots to protect his individual record. Buh-bye to ANYONE who puts himself ahead of the team. He was also an UFA, IINM. So trade him while we're fighting for a playoff spot so Utah can "get something back in return?"

DMC: he was a backup without range. Energetic, but often gambled on defense. Look at his stats with Utah - nothing special. It was only under the tutelage of Quin Snyder that he became a 3PT shooter and legit starter. Not a chance he's the same player had he remained in Utah. Also, don't forget we had Hayward and Burks penciled in as the future starters. Ever think that PERHAPS DMC wanted a chance to earn a starting spot?

Millsap: trade rumor was Millsap and Burks for Bledsoe. That can be argued either way. Jazz decided against it or Phoenix backed out or that was never the real offer (depending on what rumor you believe). Also remember there was an internal struggle between KOC, the Millers and DL. Lindsey wanted a complete rebuild. KOC and the Millers wanted to re-sign Millsap (and in that scenario, likely DMC and maybe Foye). Is that a good situation going forward? Jazz fight for the #8 seed, Ty remains the coach. WE get a late lottery or late teen pick (depending on whether we miss/make the playoffs).

To say we let these players walk "for nothing" is inaccurate and disingenuous. We got cap space instead of expirings or players on bad contracts. DL then flipped that cap space for additional assets. And he was operating under a divided front office. And that has resulted in an extra pick (Hood) and a 2017 pick TBD. It was also a KEY part of the "GM tank." Jazz are drafting in the top-10 for 2 years in a row because DL got rid of vets and some decent backups. Had we kept Millsap or Jefferson, the Jazz likely draft in the 12-14 range or even make the playoffs and draft #18. So someone like McDermott, Ennis or even Hood. I see this as failing to sign Millsap = Exum. No Jefferson/Carroll equals a higher pick this season.
 
DWill was traded to supposedly shorten the rebuilding phase. Favors and Kanter -- what great pieces to accelerate the process!
Add Hayward, Burke, Burks, Exum, etc. etc. etc. This team has had more shots high up in the draft than many other successful teams. Yet the 'rebuild' continues, and the wallet remains closed.
 
It's a win-win for ownership. Cheap out on spending, sell fans on perpetual hope. Player _____ in the draft will save us!
No consequences if the player doesn't. All a part of the plan. Just wait until next year.
If they luck out and hit on the next Kobe/DWill? Awesome-- all a part of the plan!

...Until it comes time to spend, and the $ is not spent--disgruntling the next DWill and restarting the cycle.
 
If you want change, you have to demand it with your wallet and $upport.
As long as they keep getting views, keep getting merch out the door, and keep $elling tix--they'll continue to $ell out.
#OccupyESA
 
Jazz Insider said:
DWill was traded to supposedly shorten the rebuilding phase. Favors and Kanter -- what great pieces to accelerate the process!
Add Hayward, Burke, Burks, Exum, etc. etc. etc. This team has had more shots high up in the draft than many other successful teams. Yet the 'rebuild' continues, and the wallet remains closed.
Click to expand...
Umm, no. The Deron trade did NOT start the rebuild. Still had veterans (Millsap/Jefferson) and brought in more to try to continue to compete for the playoffs. A REBUILDING team does not bring in Foye, Mo Williams and trade Harris for Marvin Williams. Did the "retool" work? Well, if you equate success to making the playoffs, then yes, it was successful. Jazz understandably collapsed right after the Sloan/Williams debacle and missed the playoffs. Next season they made the playoffs. Year after KOC tweaked the roster with vets (Mo, Foye and Marvin for Harris CJ and Bell).

In those three years you claim the Jazz were rebuilding?
2010/11 - 39/43. Year of the Deron trade. Missed the playoffs.
2011/12 - 36-30. Strike-shortened year. Made the playoffs.
2012/13 - 43-39. Missed the playoffs DESPITE having a team anchored by veterans (Millsap, Jefferson, Foye, Mo, etc.).

2013/14. FIRST year of true rebuild. Only significant vets are RJ and Marvin.


Feel free to vote with your wallet, JazzInsider. AS for the Millers and DL they are voting with theirs by signing new contracts for Favors, Hayward and Burks and indicating they want to keep Kanter. They've committed to a couple of years of losing in order to build a foundation for the next decade. Will it work? Not sure. But I do know getting swept - BADLY - in the first round wasn't the way to go.
 
You make my point, sir. Just because they made the playoffs does not mean they were not rebuilding. That is your assumption. It appears they were just rebuilding poorly. Most without tinted glasses would consider trading away of a franchise player (DW) for young talent and firing (err separating) from a guy like Sloan as the start of a rebuild.
Just like now, when they are 'rebuilding', and aren't exactly positioned to get a Top 3 pick. And could end up with a mid lottery pick.
If they are rebuilding, they're not good at it. If they're not rebuilding ... ****.
 
Jazz Insider said:
You make my point, sir. Just because they made the playoffs does not mean they were not rebuilding. That is your assumption. It appears they were just rebuilding poorly. Most without tinted glasses would consider trading away of a franchise player (DW) for young talent and firing (err separating) from a guy like Sloan as the start of a rebuild.
Just like now, when they are 'rebuilding', and aren't exactly positioned to get a Top 3 pick. And could end up with a mid lottery pick.
If they are rebuilding, they're not good at it. If they're not rebuilding ... ****.
Click to expand...
You trade away a franchise pick if you feel you have no chance of re-signing him. Was OKC rebuilding when they traded away Harden? The Sloan debacle was not rebuilding; he wanted Deron disciplined and Greg didn't back him up like Larry H. would have. Power struggle and Sloan said "**** ***" to the new owner. When you try to compete for the playoffs by replacing veterans with veterans, that is NOT rebuilding. KOC did not try to rebuild. He tried to bring vets in to push for the playoffs.

DL IS rebuilding. And the rebuilding started the summer of 2013 when the GS deal was made and the Jazz told Millsap, Carroll and Foye they should look for a different team.
 
Stifle Tower said:
You trade away a franchise pick if you feel you have no chance of re-signing him. Was OKC rebuilding when they traded away Harden?
Click to expand...

3 things:
1. I appreciate the response, sir.

2. OKC didn't trade away their franchise player, they traded away their 6th man. If Utah had Durant and Westbrook, i wouldn't count trading away a 6th man DWill as the begin of a rebuild.

3.Why do you feel the Jazz felt they had no chance of re-signing Deron Williams?
 
Jazz Insider said:
3 things:
1. I appreciate the response, sir.

2. OKC didn't trade away their franchise player, they traded away their 6th man. If Utah had Durant and Westbrook, i wouldn't count trading away a 6th man DWill as the begin of a rebuild.

3.Why do you feel the Jazz felt they had no chance of re-signing Deron Williams?
Click to expand...

I don't think they had NO chance, I just feel it was very small. In no particular order (and certainly not all-inclusive)

a. Reportedly, KOC and the Millers met repeatedly with Deron and his agents to get some sense of commitment. Deron never openly said anything one way or another.
b. There had been friction with Deron/Sloan dating back to his rookie season. And sometime around December/January, Deron allegedly stopped running some of Jerry's plays. Media reports said Jerry wanted the authority to discipline Deron and Greg's/KOC's failure to stand by him was the cause of him leaving.
c. Deron was enthusiastic and spoke about getting free agents to come play with him in Utah early in his career. It just didn't happen.
d. Trading for Al was an effort to get Deron to stay after they decided to part ways with Boozer. Deron told Al he was going to make him an all-star. Just didn't happen. The two weren't a great fit.
e. After Sloan quit, I think 90% of the fans and media placed the blame on Deron. I doubt ANY player would want to stay with that cloud hanging over them.
f. Bigger market, chance to win a championship. Jazz would have needed to major roster adjustments, including trying to trade Big Al in order to give Deron a team built around him. it would have taken a few years to do that. In free agency, Deron would have had a chance to pick from among several teams and form a "Big-3" with him as the centerpiece (instant contention - or so everyone thought). And there are owners out there who had the means to go deep into the luxury tax to build a contender. Millers do not.
g. Any money lost by signing a shorter contract with less of a percentage increase year-over-year with Team X vs. Utah could be made up with by more advertising and bigger endorsements by playing in a better or larger market than Utah.
 
Stifle Tower said:
I don't think they had NO chance, I just feel it was very small. In no particular order (and certainly not all-inclusive)

a. Reportedly, KOC and the Millers met repeatedly with Deron and his agents to get some sense of commitment. Deron never openly said anything one way or another.
b. There had been friction with Deron/Sloan dating back to his rookie season. And sometime around December/January, Deron allegedly stopped running some of Jerry's plays. Media reports said Jerry wanted the authority to discipline Deron and Greg's/KOC's failure to stand by him was the cause of him leaving.
c. Deron was enthusiastic and spoke about getting free agents to come play with him in Utah early in his career. It just didn't happen.
d. Trading for Al was an effort to get Deron to stay after they decided to part ways with Boozer. Deron told Al he was going to make him an all-star. Just didn't happen. The two weren't a great fit.
e. After Sloan quit, I think 90% of the fans and media placed the blame on Deron. I doubt ANY player would want to stay with that cloud hanging over them.
f. Bigger market, chance to win a championship. Jazz would have needed to major roster adjustments, including trying to trade Big Al in order to give Deron a team built around him. it would have taken a few years to do that. In free agency, Deron would have had a chance to pick from among several teams and form a "Big-3" with him as the centerpiece (instant contention - or so everyone thought). And there are owners out there who had the means to go deep into the luxury tax to build a contender. Millers do not.
g. Any money lost by signing a shorter contract with less of a percentage increase year-over-year with Team X vs. Utah could be made up with by more advertising and bigger endorsements by playing in a better or larger market than Utah.
Click to expand...

In other words, it appears you could also say "because the Jazz failed to build a contending-caliber team around him." Is that fair, in some respect, sir? I also seem to recall DW was also turned off by mgmt not spending enough to keep/acquire players.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top