Peaceful protest over Charlie Hebdo in Chechnya

[Stoked]

It says right there that you should protect peaceful people. The terrorists are attacking because they view Americans as terrorists themselves. The terrorists view what they are doing as self defense. This is why I think the US should seek nonviolent means to handling the middle east as each side continues to attack and believe what they themselves are acting in retaliation.

The problem with this is that it seems these people do not care who they attack. America, France, England, Africa, Israel, each other...

You remove America from this equation, and I think we should be much more hands off (or all in, as a world, but that won't happen), and they will stilll be killing and plotting.

When these nutjobs say they won't stop till they are all dead or they control the whole world I believe them.

 

[mellow]

I see no easy answers, only complex problems. The rhetoric and violence makes peace seem improbable, but I believe in the goodness of people and of God, so I have hope that peace is possible.

Perhaps someday people will grow tired of war and sue for peace.

 

[♪alt13]

It says right there that you should protect peaceful people. The terrorists are attacking because they view Americans as terrorists themselves. The terrorists view what they are doing as self defense. This is why I think the US should seek nonviolent means to handling the middle east as each side continues to attack and believe what they themselves are acting in retaliation.

9:13-9:14

Would you not fight a people who broke their oaths and determined to expel the Messenger, and they had begun [the attack upon] you the first time? Do you fear them? But Allah has more right that you should fear Him, if you are [truly] believers.

Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people


9:26-9:30 ?

Then Allah sent down His tranquillity upon His Messenger and upon the believers and sent down soldiers angels whom you did not see and punished those who disbelieved. And that is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Then Allah will accept repentance after that for whom He wills; and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

O you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise.

Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.

The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah "; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah ." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?

 

[stitches]

Countries like Turkey and Bosnia have 99% literacy rate and have the most favorable view vs suicide bombing. Lets check the literacy rates of some of these other countries.

Iraq 80.2%
Syria 79.6 %
Nigeria 61.3%
Bangladesh... 57.7%
Pakistan 55.5%
Afghanistan adult literacy rate.... 28.1%

You want to reduce terrorism? Send books and teachers not drones and bombs.

81% of Americans want to nuke the Middle East. https://www.debate.org/opinions/should-america-nuke-the-middle-east

61% of Americans think nuking Japan was the right thing to do

Which one kills/killed more innocent lives?

I absolutely agree that education in general and emancipation of women is the solution to most problems in that region. The problem is that those nutjobs bomb schools and kill girls who want to get education.

 

[Stoked]

https://time.com/3674778/yemen-al-qaeda/#3674778/yemen-al-qaeda/

Basically there is a Coup going on in Yemen by a ****e group against the Sunni President. basically multiple sources say that the President has lost all control and it's a complete toss up. The rebels even captured the Presidential Palace.

There is fear that if Yemen gets completely out of control that Al Queada will take over and then there will be another front facet to the broadening Middle East war.

 

[The Blue Elephant]

War is a part of humanity and civilization. For the Qur'an not to address it would be negligent. Even the Surah that talks about this aspect of life still mentions within it to protect peaceful people. People will use any excuse to kill other people. There are people that kill each other for rooting for the wrong football team. Right now happens to be a point in history where much of the Muslim world is uneducated, corrupted, and impoverish. I never stated the Qur'an is a book about peace. It is a book about peace, war, and other aspects of life. Even the verses in the Qur'an that talk specifically about war once again contain lines in them talking about peace.

According to https://www.princeton.edu/~rumi/files/warandpeace.ppt

War is repeated 36 times in Quran, peace is repeated 67 times

 

[MVP]

Much more scary ( and real ) is what M.Gaddafi said once - "We ( muslims) do not need terrorists, bombs or war to conquer Western world. All we need is our men to marry their women". Its working, see this chart for example:

Safe to say by 2090 most of European countries will be dominated by Muslim majority.

 

[Stoked]

Much more scary ( and real ) is what M.Gaddafi said once - "We ( muslims) do not need terrorists, bombs or war to conquer Western world. All we need is our men to marry their women". Its working, see this chart for example:

Save to say by 2090 most of European countries will be dominated by Muslim majority.

If these projections hold true (remember the one of 200 million Mormons by 2020 or something like that?) then you will see a dramatic rise in actions being taken against Islam. As people feel the heat, and as a result their way of life, threatened then their reactions will increase in severity.

If the current climate of tension in Europe holds and these numbers prove true then it'll hit the fan, imo.

 

[♪alt13]

Much more scary ( and real ) is what M.Gaddafi said once - "We ( muslims) do not need terrorists, bombs or war to conquer Western world. All we need is our men to marry their women". Its working, see this chart for example:

Safe to say by 2090 most of European countries will be dominated by Muslim majority.

First this is demographic fear mongering. Second Muslim fertility rates are dropping faster than European rates did. Muslims are a population that are equally susceptible to the modern pressures of quality parenting over quantity of children. This is largely a rich/poor and urban/rural thing.

 

[♪alt13]

War is a part of humanity and civilization. For the Qur'an not to address it would be negligent. Even the Surah that talks about this aspect of life still mentions within it to protect peaceful people. People will use any excuse to kill other people. There are people that kill each other for rooting for the wrong football team. Right now happens to be a point in history where much of the Muslim world is uneducated, corrupted, and impoverish. I never stated the Qur'an is a book about peace. It is a book about peace, war, and other aspects of life. Even the verses in the Qur'an that talk specifically about war once again contain lines in them talking about peace.

According to https://www.princeton.edu/~rumi/files/warandpeace.ppt

War is repeated 36 times in Quran, peace is repeated 67 times

So

According to the find word function in firefox Hitler uses the word peace over 100 times in Mein Kampf. Counting instances of words doesn't really tell us much.


Godwin'd

 

[fishonjazz]

I am happy you quoted the whole thing and not out of context. If people who disagree with you but don't wage war with you, not only do you not attack them, but you also protect them.

It says right there that you should protect peaceful people. The terrorists are attacking because they view Americans as terrorists themselves. The terrorists view what they are doing as self defense. This is why I think the US should seek nonviolent means to handling the middle east as each side continues to attack and believe what they themselves are acting in retaliation.

What is this part talking about?

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush.

What are polytheists? (People who believe in multiple Gods?)

Why do they deserve to be killed?

 

[The Blue Elephant]

What is this part talking about?



What are polytheists? (People who believe in multiple Gods?)

Why do they deserve to be killed?

That is verse 9:5. In the verse next verse 9:6. It says to not only give peace to the peaceful polytheists but to also protect them. Polytheists/atheists are people who worship things other than God such as fake gods or themselves.

 

[♪alt13]

What is this part talking about?



What are polytheists? (People who believe in multiple Gods?)

Why do they deserve to be killed?

yep

Because there is one true god. Muslims aren't alone in having these kind of statements in their holy book. The Bible has just as many, if not more,(probably more) quotes about slaughtering people for the same reason.

 

[♪alt13]

That is verse 9:5. It says to not only give peace to the peaceful polytheists but to also protect them.

if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah,...

 

[The Blue Elephant]

if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah,...

Where in the verse does it say that?

 

[♪alt13]

I am happy you quoted the whole thing and not out of context. If people who disagree with you but don't wage war with you, not only do you not attack them, but you also protect them.

You can't have it both ways. Either verses should be interpreted in context of surrounding verses or they are independent of one another. You can't ask people to consider the larger context and then when they do dismiss a directly adjacent verse.

Where in the verse does it say that?

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

 

[The Blue Elephant]

That is after the polytheists already raged war against the Muslims. In that case they have to repent.

 

[MVP]

But ISIS still killed that American aid worker who converted to Islam, he even changed his name to arabic long time before capture and that still did not matter. So how is it?

 

[♪alt13]

I should add that this is not my interpretation of the passage(I don't have one, I don't subscribe to Islam) This is an interpretation that seems to be accepted by the Islamists. They are growing in number and we know that they are recruiting from the families of more moderate Muslims.

I do think it is fair that people call upon Muslims to combat these more violent interpretations of the Qur'an.

 

[MVP]

Can it be such a thing as modern Islam? I mean it took some time for Christian churches to adjust to scientific progress and modern values. Can Islam turn into modern religion which does not take every single word in Quran literally? Or it will take ~600 years for Islam to catch to to Christianity in that regard?
Like most of our Turkish posters and dalamon look like very modern muslims. Can they become majority in the 1.5 bil muslim world?