Following Potential Draftees - 2019 (not kidding)

LoPo said:

You might be right - Conley might be the best player we can acquire this summer depending on how things shake out. But my argument is this:

Conley costs Favors, a 1st, another asset and all cap flexibility this summer and next. He has zero upward potential and a 2 or 3 year shelf life of legitimate quality play.

A mid tier free agent (Lamb, Rozier, Randle, Bogdanovic, whatever) plus Favors plus #23 has more potential. There is room for growth there.

Our future is Donovan Mitchell. Making a move to get us a little further in the 2nd round which costs us long term pieces next to Donovan is stupid. If Rudy doesn't like it, trade Rudy. Donovan is our franchise.



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I do like Randle. But if we pick him up we lose Favors anyway. There's not enough minutes for Gobert/Randle/Jae/Favors. And Jae is on a bargain deal. So no reason to pay to keep Favs.

Bogdanovic is not leaving Indy. He's coming off of a career year and they will pay him.

Lamb sucks. He gets us nowhere.

I like Rozier but he's inefficient. He's probably not much more than an inconsistent 6th Man for us. Which isn't as much growth potential as you think.

These guys are just more of the same. Except maybe Randle. Who I would be fine with.

Letting Rudy go is laughable man. Especially if you're wanting a ring.

LoPo said:

You said this Cy. Nobody else.

Name an old PG who was added and led his team to a title. Seriously, I don't know of any title winner who added a 32+ PG relied on as the team's 2nd best offensive player and that team wins the title.

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A 32 year old Chris Paul was added to the Houston Rockets and helped lead them to the best record in the NBA and a 3-2 conference finals lead over one of the greatest teams of all time. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he very well could have led his team to the title.

I don't understand these "he will not get us a title" arguments. If that's the standard, we have to sign KD or Kahwi. Nobody else comes close to getting us a title. We talk of Jeremy Lamb, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, Mirotic, Beverley, Justice Winslow, Dinwiddie and D'Lo. They could make us better, but none of those will get us a title. They will also cost us flexibility and tie up cap space. Any added player will do that. But somehow Conley is the worst decision of all. Even though none of these players is a better player than Conley at this point in time.

Saint Cy of JFC said:

To be fair to what?

The point is that a high level PG can help you win it all, no matter the age. The Jazz have late round picks that help them. They dont need that guy. They need a high level PG.

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I think the Jazz just need another high level scorer. Doesn't have to be a PG, or could be a scoring PG who isn't much of a distributor.
Whether we get a combo type guard to play with DM or a scoring 3 or 4, a good additional scorer will help this take take a leap.

Udidthizz said:

I don't understand these "he will not get us a title" arguments. If that's the standard, we have to sign KD or Kahwi. Nobody else comes close to getting us a title. We talk of Jeremy Lamb, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, Mirotic, Beverley, Justice Winslow, Dinwiddie and D'Lo.

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This is soooooo stupid, this is in fact a panicked take... Posts like these and this thought process, are essentially why the Jazz are in the quagmire their in.


This is why you build thru the draft.... Not trade picks for vets.... This is the dumb **** that follows.... This is as dumb as when Layden ran the Knicks, or not that dumb, but close, which speaks volumes, cuz that guy did a horrible job.


Before u get defensive, Ill smash this argument to pieces and use it to reinforce what I've been saying all along... you've been warned.



Best part is u gotta say some dumb **** and then attempt to drag someone like D'Angelo Russell down in the process.


If Utah can't win a title with D'Angelo Russell, then what are you waiting for? the shows over bruh if thats the case. Might as well just pack it up and reconvene in the 2030's....

If Utah can't win with D'Angelo Russell ---- the move is clear, it's time to shop Rudy and Mitchell and start from scratch with as many 1st rd picks as they can find.

Udidthizz said:

A 32 year old Chris Paul was added to the Houston Rockets and helped lead them to the best record in the NBA and a 3-2 conference finals lead over one of the greatest teams of all time. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he very well could have led his team to the title.

I don't understand these "he will not get us a title" arguments. If that's the standard, we have to sign KD or Kahwi. Nobody else comes close to getting us a title. We talk of Jeremy Lamb, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, Mirotic, Beverley, Justice Winslow, Dinwiddie and D'Lo. They could make us better, but none of those will get us a title. They will also cost us flexibility and tie up cap space. Any added player will do that. But somehow Conley is the worst decision of all. Even though none of these players is a better player than Conley at this point in time.

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Udidthizz said:

A 32 year old Chris Paul was added to the Houston Rockets and helped lead them to the best record in the NBA and a 3-2 conference finals lead over one of the greatest teams of all time. If he wouldn't have gotten injured he very well could have led his team to the title.

I don't understand these "he will not get us a title" arguments. If that's the standard, we have to sign KD or Kahwi. Nobody else comes close to getting us a title. We talk of Jeremy Lamb, Julius Randle, Jabari Parker, Mirotic, Beverley, Justice Winslow, Dinwiddie and D'Lo. They could make us better, but none of those will get us a title. They will also cost us flexibility and tie up cap space. Any added player will do that. But somehow Conley is the worst decision of all. Even though none of these players is a better player than Conley at this point in time.

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Paying 32+ year old Chris Paul is going to be the anchor for Houston's title chances. They are already trying to dump him.

Houston added Paul to James Harden who was/is clearly in his prime. No offense to Donovan, but he isn't there yet. Comparing adding Paul to adding Conley is a good try, but the entire situations are apples and oranges. And it still didn't work for Houston and will hurt them badly over the long haul.

Cy said a high level PG will help you to a title. My stance is that draft picks and hopefully a mid tier free agent with progression potential gets us closer to title contention.

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Lord Bullingdon said:

This is soooooo stupid, this is in fact a panicked take... Posts like these and this thought process, are essentially why the Jazz are in the quagmire their in.


This is why you build thru the draft.... Not trade picks for vets.... This is the dumb **** that follows.... This is as dumb as when Layden ran the Knicks, or not that dumb, but close, which speaks volumes, cuz that guy did a horrible job.


Before u get defensive, Ill smash this argument to pieces and use it to reinforce what I've been saying all along... you've been warned.



Best part is u gotta say some dumb **** and then attempt to drag someone like D'Angelo Russell down in the process.


If Utah can't win a title with D'Angelo Russell, then what are you waiting for? the shows over bruh if thats the case. Might as well just pack it up and reconvene in the 2030's....

If Utah can't win with D'Angelo Russell ---- the move is clear, it's time to shop Rudy and Mitchell and start from scratch with as many 1st rd picks as they can find.

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I'm not sure you quite got my point. I only responded to the argument that adding Conley will not lead to winning a title. I find it odd that that would be the argument against Conley, but not against any of the other potential additions. And I'm not dragging D'Angelo Russell down. I would love to sign him. But if the only standard is that we should only invest in players that will bring a championship, then signing D'Lo is no better or worse than trading for Conley. The current team without Rubio and Favors but with D'Lo is not going to win a championship without further additions.

LoPo said:

Paying 32+ year old Chris Paul is going to be the anchor for Houston's title chances. They are already trying to dump him.

Houston added Paul to James Harden who was/is clearly in his prime. No offense to Donovan, but he isn't there yet. Comparing adding Paul to adding Conley is a good try, but the entire situations are apples and oranges. And it still didn't work for Houston and will hurt them badly over the long haul.

Cy said a high level PG will help you to a title. My stance is that draft picks and hopefully a mid tier free agent with progression potential gets us closer to title contention.

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You're changing the goal posts. All you asked for was an example of adding a 32 year old point guard that led to a championship. The case of Paul comes close. Of course I have no example of adding a 32 year old point guard to a team that is exactly the same as the Jazz is now which led to a championship. Every team is different. If I had mentioned any other team, you could have said "but they have player X and Donovan is not player X".

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I'd prefer investing in younger talent through the draft or otherwise. But that is aimed at a longer timeline. Trading for Conley would be aimed at winning more now.

Udidthizz said:

You're changing the goal posts. All you asked for was an example of adding a 32 year old point guard that led to a championship. The case of Paul comes close. Of course I have no example of adding a 32 year old point guard to a team that is exactly the same as the Jazz is now which led to a championship. Every team is different. If I had mentioned any other team, you could have said "but they have player X and Donovan is not player X".

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I'd prefer investing in younger talent through the draft or otherwise. But that is aimed at a longer timeline. Trading for Conley would be aimed at winning more now.

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Lopo moving the goal post is like water being wet

Udidthizz said:

I'm not sure you quite got my point. I only responded to the argument that adding Conley will not lead to winning a title. I find it odd that that would be the argument against Conley, but not against any of the other potential additions. And I'm not dragging D'Angelo Russell down. I would love to sign him. But if the only standard is that we should only invest in players that will bring a championship, then signing D'Lo is no better or worse than trading for Conley. The current team without Rubio and Favors but with D'Lo is not going to win a championship without further additions.

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PPL mostly look at things like dumb consumers, their ****ing bourgeoisie thru and thru, and this is no different.

You dont "buy titles" when they say that about the Yankees, it's not like going to ****ing macy's..... Those comments are just pandering to an audience that wants to hear that said, so they can agree and have seeds of revenge planted in their heads...

It's not actually reality, ask any player on the team who's won a chip if the championship was bought and ur in for a treat... It takes blood sweat and tears just like anything else worth hunting down...

titles are about growth, and survival.. The professionals involved make it possible for the growth to happen rapidly, and for survival chances to increase drastically. A concept Utah's FO obviously struggles with for, the entire life of the franchise, they are perpetually a good team thats afraid to take a big leap to greatness, they prefer to be decent and then take babysteps, they concede the chance at greatness, to maintain being slightly above average(in a field of 30....) and sell tons of tickets and some facade about "the Jazz way" while reaping the financial rewards of a regional monopoly...


Can the Jazz really lose? I say no... Just like Jim Dolan can't lose... The ppl showing up losing their $$$ to watch this stuff, they're the clear losers.. Honestly I'd rather lose a bet on a game than pay to go see a game, cuz i'll watch it anyways from home, and on a losing bet, at least i gain feedback/actionable info, ya know --- learn a lesson...

When I go to games, or boxing matches, the lesson i usually learn is no one sitting near me in any sort of proximity, usually has a clue about whats going on, and it's all a big voyeurism type of deal..

Lord Bullingdon said:

PPL mostly look at things like dumb consumers, their ****ing bourgeoisie thru and thru, and this is no different.

You dont "buy titles" when they say that about the Yankees, it's not like going to ****ing macy's..... Those comments are just pandering to an audience that wants to hear that said, so they can agree and have seeds of revenge planted in their heads...

It's not actually reality, ask any player on the team who's won a chip if the championship was bought and ur in for a treat... It takes blood sweat and tears just like anything else worth hunting down...

titles are about growth, and survival.. The professionals involved make it possible for the growth to happen rapidly, and for survival chances to increase drastically. A concept Utah's FO obviously struggles with for, the entire life of the franchise, they are perpetually a good team thats afraid to take a big leap to greatness, they prefer to be decent and then take babysteps, they concede the chance at greatness, to maintain being slightly above average(in a field of 30....) and sell tons of tickets and some facade about "the Jazz way" while reaping the financial rewards of a regional monopoly...


Can the Jazz really lose? I say no... Just like Jim Dolan can't lose... The ppl showing up losing their $$$ to watch this stuff, they're the clear losers.. Honestly I'd rather lose a bet on a game than pay to go see a game, cuz i'll watch it anyways from home, and on a losing bet, at least i gain feedback..

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Completely agree. Yet here we all are, hoping yet again that this summer will be different and the FO will finally take a leap.

Lord Bullingdon said:

Can the Jazz really lose? I say no... Just like Jim Dolan can't lose... The ppl showing up losing their $$$ to watch this stuff, they're the clear losers.. Honestly I'd rather lose a bet on a game than pay to go see a game, cuz i'll watch it anyways from home, and on a losing bet, at least i gain feedback/actionable info, ya know --- learn a lesson...

When I go to games, or boxing matches, the lesson i usually learn is no one sitting near me in any sort of proximity, usually has a clue about whats going on, and it's all a big voyeurism type of deal..

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You admittedly go to games and matches so I guess you’re a clear loser, right?

Udidthizz said:

You're changing the goal posts. All you asked for was an example of adding a 32 year old point guard that led to a championship. The case of Paul comes close. Of course I have no example of adding a 32 year old point guard to a team that is exactly the same as the Jazz is now which led to a championship. Every team is different. If I had mentioned any other team, you could have said "but they have player X and Donovan is not player X".

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I'd prefer investing in younger talent through the draft or otherwise. But that is aimed at a longer timeline. Trading for Conley would be aimed at winning more now.

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Chris Paul didn't lead Houston to a championship. He didn't even lead them to the finals. So I didn't move the goal posts at all.

If anything, the Paul example works even more in my favor. He made Houston marginally better but now his age and contract will completely destroy their window to try to contend.

You know who makes Utah marginally better but wrecks any chance of improvement and outside growth? You got it, Mike Conley.

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Udidthizz said:

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I'd prefer investing in younger talent through the draft or otherwise. But that is aimed at a longer timeline. Trading for Conley would be aimed at winning more now.

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I have agreed that Conley makes us slightly better. I just don't think the improvement is worth the sacrifices. Conley would have been worth the gamble at the deadline. Now, it's just a bad move.

We need younger players or draft picks. We need players for Donovan's timeline (the next decade) more than Rudy's timeline (the next few years).

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LoPo said:

Chris Paul didn't lead Houston to a championship. He didn't even lead them to the finals. So I didn't move the goal posts at all.

If anything, the Paul example works even more in my favor. He made Houston marginally better but now his age and contract will completely destroy their window to try to contend.

You know who makes Utah marginally better but wrecks any chance of improvement and outside growth? You got it, Mike Conley.

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Except he doesn't because his contract expires in two years and we'd have enough financial flexibility if we're careful to pivot our roster in a different direction. Unlike the Rockets situation.

LoPo said:

Chris Paul didn't lead Houston to a championship. He didn't even lead them to the finals. So I didn't move the goal posts at all.

If anything, the Paul example works even more in my favor. He made Houston marginally better but now his age and contract will completely destroy their window to try to contend.

You know who makes Utah marginally better but wrecks any chance of improvement and outside growth? You got it, Mike Conley.

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The Rockets swung for the fences with Paul and it might well have worked out. Made their best run since 1995. They gave themselves a chance to make it happen. The Jazz traditionally go for stability, growth, internal development etc. Perhaps they honestly believe that or perhaps it's an excuse for avoiding risk. I'm not saying the Jazz have to get Conley, but if they want to get somewhere at some point they have to take a risk. Do they want to make a serious run or are they content with a playoff berth?

Udidthizz said:

The Rockets swung for the fences with Paul and it might well have worked out. Made their best run since 1995. They gave themselves a chance to make it happen. The Jazz traditionally go for stability, growth, internal development etc. Perhaps they honestly believe that or perhaps it's an excuse for avoiding risk. I'm not saying the Jazz have to get Conley, but if they want to get somewhere at some point they have to take a risk. Do they want to make a serious run or are they content with a playoff berth?

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Getting Conley for a first is a home run... was at the deadline and still is now. He might not stay healthy but if he does it’s a huge win.

I laugh when anytime the argument against a player is purely just his age. Look at what the guy is doing... age is one factor and if there are no signs of decline and the guys is on a two year deal then I’m not super concerned about age.

This is a good article on THT

https://www.slcdunk.com/nba-draft/2...iowa-state-university-utah-jazz-georges-niang

Handlogten's Heros said:

I laugh when anytime the argument against a player is purely just his age. Look at what the guy is doing... age is one factor and if there are no signs of decline and the guys is on a two year deal then I’m not super concerned about age.

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My argument against Conley is:

- cost: I think it will be more than just one 1st AND we lose Favors without being able to adequately replace him

- contract: if we add his contract via trade after the moratorium (much more likely than during the draft since a move during the draft would mean we didn't even try in free agency), it crushes our cap space for this summer AND next

- age: he's 32 soon

His age isn't the only issue for me. It's one concern but not the only one. I like the idea of Conley here, but not for the sacrifices necessary to make it happen.

Catchall said:

This is a good article on THT

https://www.slcdunk.com/nba-draft/2...iowa-state-university-utah-jazz-georges-niang

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Interesting read. I still like him for the Jazz. I have this irrational dream of Donovan and him in a monstrously strong and long backcourt.

Lord Bullingdon said:

Dr. Jones laying the foundation on a 'tank for LaMelo Ball' campaign already.

#Stall4Ball

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Yikes