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Buyout Options

infection said:
As you said, the buyout market requires some kind of inside knowledge to get the ball rolling. We don’t do that because we don’t want our guys thinking we’re looking to replace them. Of course, there are exceptions to that, like if we get tunnel vision on a particular guy and are willing to allow one of our chemistry guys to be publicly dangled for two weeks. Or if we think someone shows promise and is up and coming, then we’ll waive Jeff Green. But waiving one of Dennis’ guys is a tall order. Moving TB out of the rotation or waiving NWG doesn’t compute. Those are DL guys until the purposes of Dennis have been accomplished and the great DL says, “the work is done.”
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Maybe this is why he sold some second rounders years ago... he realized he had a hoarding problem and that was his way of dealing with it. We are now stuck with these G League guys forever so hopefully they get good.
 
infection said:
But if Houston is really using their spaces on Green and DMC, then it leaves us as one of the few people to get buyouts. We’re probably the only team who would [should] sign someone like Biyombo, and I don’t think we’re out there making inquiries and letting people know of interest. I mean, DL is at the bar, aggressively making himself available, but no pressure to be the first one to tip his hand because he’s got a night ogling women in the Sear’s catalog that he’s more than content with so he doesn’t feel the need to be put out by expectation.
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With Biyombo here is how it would have to work... you guys decide if DL would do it... you call the Horncats and say "hey if we signed Bismack you could save some money with a buyout... would it be okay to kick the tires on that with his agent or no interest there?" They say no or yes and it goes from there.

Unless the player goes to the team and says "waive me or buy me out" then teams really won't get rid of useful players. It sounds like Harkless wanted to stay in NY, so I doubt that happens. The financial considerations are small.

So what I'm saying is you'd have to be proactive and borderline rude "Hey your team is *** but has some solid players we'd like... want to save a few pennies and buy em out so we can have em?" Or "which guys are you considering buying out?"

I'd assume it is almost always on the player, but either agents are calling destinations or gms are calling teams/agents and sniffing this stuff out... when the transaction happens the new team has been announced each time. So is DL/JZ gonna have these types of conversations?

I just imagine DL being against this type of thing because it feels like tampering.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I'd say its 50/50 whether we play the Rockets in the 4/5 matchup or get some other arrangement. Jazz Rockets 4/5 is currently looking like the most likely scenario by a lot.

I think we can beat them... I hate watching them and have PTSD from the last two years. Would much rather play other teams... if only to have a barometer of how we line up against more traditional western conference teams.
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I posted this in another thread...

538's ELO model projects the Western Conf. will finish:

1 Lakers (61-21)
2 Nuggets (55-27)
3 Jazz (54-28)
4 Clippers (53-29)
5 Rockets (51-31)
6 Thunder (49-33)
7 Mavericks (48-34)
8 Grizzlies (41-41)

This would mean the Jazz finish 18-10. I definitely think we can do a game or two better than that.
 
Catchall said:
I posted this in another thread...

538's ELO model projects the Western Conf. will finish:

1 Lakers (61-21)
2 Nuggets (55-27)
3 Jazz (54-28)
4 Clippers (53-29)
5 Rockets (51-31)
6 Thunder (49-33)
7 Mavericks (48-34)
8 Grizzlies (41-41)

This would mean the Jazz finish 18-10. I definitely think we can do a game or two better than that.
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That is fine... its a projection system... and its a one game difference between 3 and 4. 538's other projection system has us finishing 5th in the west. ESPN's has us finishing tied with Denver, so 4th in the west.

We need to finish ahead of the Clips and Rockets... both are possible... I think its a coin toss at this point. Anything can happen... this is just one projection system.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
With Biyombo here is how it would have to work... you guys decide if DL would do it... you call the Horncats and say "hey if we signed Bismack you could save some money with a buyout... would it be okay to kick the tires on that with his agent or no interest there?" They say no or yes and it goes from there.

Unless the player goes to the team and says "waive me or buy me out" then teams really won't get rid of useful players. It sounds like Harkless wanted to stay in NY, so I doubt that happens. The financial considerations are small.

So what I'm saying is you'd have to be proactive and borderline rude "Hey your team is *** but has some solid players we'd like... want to save a few pennies and buy em out so we can have em?" Or "which guys are you considering buying out?"

I'd assume it is almost always on the player, but either agents are calling destinations or gms are calling teams/agents and sniffing this stuff out... when the transaction happens the new team has been announced each time. So is DL/JZ gonna have these types of conversations?

I just imagine DL being against this type of thing because it feels like tampering.
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If he’s not doing those things, but some are insisting he’s being aggressive, what exactly is he doing? I mean, even when everyone wanted to crucify DL for how we came away empty handed with Hayward and were looking at deep lottery, I said he was a top 3 GM, and my feelings are pretty consistent through the ups and downs, but I don’t understand this notion that the FO is making the absolute best move always, that they’re always outperforming, and if there’s nothing to show for it, it’s because anything better was absolutely impossible.

My more nuanced approach is that GMing is like pitching. You have guys who are really good and starters. Other guys who are relievers, and then some guys who are closers. Your starting pitcher May be dynamite, but you may need someone different to close it out. We’ve talked about this with players like how Westbrook is a floor raiser but isn’t taking you over the top. Anyway, I think DL is great for restoring a great foundation and getting you up near the top, but seemed to struggle a bit with closing moves. When certain teams get into that area of the stratosphere, some teams really excel and pull magic out of their ***. Pat Riley comes to most recent mind. I don’t even think we need a rabbit pulled out of an ***, but a simple acknowledgement of the problem that will absolutely haunt us this post season would be nice.

I know, I know. The universe has absolutely decreed from before its foundation that DL absolutely can’t get any better defense in that second unit. Nope. Never. Impossible.
 
infection said:
If he’s not doing those things, but some are insisting he’s being aggressive, what exactly is he doing? I mean, even when everyone wanted to crucify DL for how we came away empty handed with Hayward and were looking at deep lottery, I said he was a top 3 GM, and my feelings are pretty consistent through the ups and downs, but I don’t understand this notion that the FO is making the absolute best move always, that they’re always outperforming, and if there’s nothing to show for it, it’s because anything better was absolutely impossible.

My more nuanced approach is that GMing is like pitching. You have guys who are really good and starters. Other guys who are relievers, and then some guys who are closers. Your starting pitcher May be dynamite, but you may need someone different to close it out. We’ve talked about this with players like how Westbrook is a floor raiser but isn’t taking you over the top. Anyway, I think DL is great for restoring a great foundation and getting you up near the top, but seemed to struggle a bit with closing moves. When certain teams get into that area of the stratosphere, some teams really excel and pull magic out of their ***. Pat Riley comes to most recent mind. I don’t even think we need a rabbit pulled out of an ***, but a simple acknowledgement of the problem that will absolutely haunt us this post season would be nice.

I know, I know. The universe has absolutely decreed from before its foundation that DL absolutely can’t get any better defense in that second unit. Nope. Never. Impossible.
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I'm not sure with DL/JZ... I think this is absolutely true though... coaches are the same way... some are better with developing teams... some can't guide championship teams but will be great as you go from lotto to playoffs.

I've liked a lot of what these guys have done, but there have been some fairly obvious missteps along the way covered up with good drafting (maybe... just maybe a little luck too).

There have been times he refused to pay the price of admission to get in on a trade and then there are times he over compensates and pays like 25-50% too much. I just wish he was a little less patient and that his "aggressiveness" would show more fruit at times. People that have paid attention notice certain patterns/behaviors that are a little troublesome... IDK I've moved past frustration into acceptance and just lowered my expectations.
 
They have zero reason to do it... can’t even save much if he waived the rest of his salary this year. At very least they can sign and trade him this offseason.

He's on the last year of his deal, he's going to be 34 years old. When was the last time there was a sign-and-trade deal done for a 34 year old journey man?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
That is fine... its a projection system... and its a one game difference between 3 and 4. 538's other projection system has us finishing 5th in the west. ESPN's has us finishing tied with Denver, so 4th in the west.

We need to finish ahead of the Clips and Rockets... both are possible... I think its a coin toss at this point. Anything can happen... this is just one projection system.
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Yeah, well you need to get on board.
 
SCS said:
I'm not scurred of Jeff.

For real though I still wish we would have kept him. I was one of the few here who did not like the idea of releasing him. Like I said at the time, he was good veteran depth. He was decent on ball defender and could play small ball 5. We still haven't found a replacement for him. It was a mistake. We could have cut NWG to sign Tucker.
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I think you may forget that, his parting coincided with our incredible winning streak (hottest team in the league for a couple weeks). I know people like to cap on Niang's deficits, but he plays team ball and can stroke the three and did just that. (I also know that that streak conincided with the addition of Jordan Clarkson, but in my mind that was only part of the story.)
 
Joncolton said:
They have zero reason to do it... can’t even save much if he waived the rest of his salary this year. At very least they can sign and trade him this offseason.

He's on the last year of his deal, he's going to be 34 years old. When was the last time there was a sign-and-trade deal done for a 34 year old journey man?
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That’s at very least... they could just want to re-sign him. Cap space has been plentiful so sign and trades weren’t a thing last few years... I expect more activity... I just think they have zero motivation to do it... they do it to be really nice?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
With Biyombo here is how it would have to work... you guys decide if DL would do it... you call the Horncats and say "hey if we signed Bismack you could save some money with a buyout... would it be okay to kick the tires on that with his agent or no interest there?" They say no or yes and it goes from there.

Unless the player goes to the team and says "waive me or buy me out" then teams really won't get rid of useful players. It sounds like Harkless wanted to stay in NY, so I doubt that happens. The financial considerations are small.

So what I'm saying is you'd have to be proactive and borderline rude "Hey your team is *** but has some solid players we'd like... want to save a few pennies and buy em out so we can have em?" Or "which guys are you considering buying out?"

I'd assume it is almost always on the player, but either agents are calling destinations or gms are calling teams/agents and sniffing this stuff out... when the transaction happens the new team has been announced each time. So is DL/JZ gonna have these types of conversations?

I just imagine DL being against this type of thing because it feels like tampering.
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I think if they proceeded the way that you suggested by calling the team's F.O. first, it couldn't be considered tampering. I hope they do something here, we need some strength, board tenacity and athleticism on the front line for the playoffs where things only get more physical and we may have to play the likes of the Lakers or the Clips who are both physical to begin with (Houston is as well - a bunch of fire plugs). I think we need a player like Biyombo more than another stretch, where we are already quite loaded with sharpshooters.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but we were on the hook for Jeff Green's salary before and Houston's move clears us of that if I'm not mistaken. So that's only more cap space and more incentive I would think to make something happen before the deadline for postseason participation.
 
Release the Kraken said:
I think if they proceeded the way that you suggested by calling the team's F.O. first, it couldn't be considered tampering. I hope they do something here, we need some strength, board tenacity and athleticism on the front line for the playoffs where things only get more physical and we may have to play the likes of the Lakers or the Clips who are both physical to begin with (Houston is as well - a bunch of fire plugs). I think we need a player like Biyombo more than another stretch, where we are already quite loaded with sharpshooters.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong here, but we were on the hook for Jeff Green's salary before and Houston's move clears us of that if I'm not mistaken. So that's only more cap space and more incentive I would think to make something happen before the deadline for postseason participation.
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Since Jeff cleared waivers he actually will get all his money from the Jazz and get to double dip on his next deal with the Rockets.

I know that isn’t tampering but was suggesting we’d have to be a little more aggressive than we’ve shown... the time to get serious upgrades has passed and from all accounts we weren’t really turning over every leaf. For a week before the deadline the narrative from the Jazz insiders was “they already made their deal”... like league rules prohibit teams from making multiple deals.

Maybe we know we can get one of the guys that are currently free agents or in other leagues... but more likely than not DL/JZ is cool rolling with our guys. You know like let the yeast rise or the cakkk bakkk or the **** settle...
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Since Jeff cleared waivers he actually will get all his money from the Jazz and get to double dip on his next deal with the Rockets.

I know that isn’t tampering but was suggesting we’d have to be a little more aggressive than we’ve shown... the time to get serious upgrades has passed and from all accounts we weren’t really turning over every leaf. For a week before the deadline the narrative from the Jazz insiders was “they already made their deal”... like league rules prohibit teams from making multiple deals.

Maybe we know we can get one of the guys that are currently free agents or in other leagues... but more likely than not DL/JZ is cool rolling with our guys. You know like let the yeast rise or the cakkk bakkk or the **** settle...
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Don't they realize or care that we have a window of opportunity here. Whereas the Jazz have always been known for excelling on the defensive end and letting the air out of the ball on the other end, this year we actually have some offensive punch and can space the floor with the best. But now we have some defensive deficits particularly with the second unit (but both to be honest) that should be addressed for the playoffs and we're just going to sit on our hands AGAIN? So frustrating being a Jazz fan, I swear.
 
Clips getting Reggie Jackson... very likely insignificant signing... this is what contenders do though... they add talent and contingency plans. Surprised he didn’t go to the Lakers.
 
Catchall said:
I posted this in another thread...

538's ELO model projects the Western Conf. will finish:

1 Lakers (61-21)
2 Nuggets (55-27)
3 Jazz (54-28)
4 Clippers (53-29)
5 Rockets (51-31)
6 Thunder (49-33)
7 Mavericks (48-34)
8 Grizzlies (41-41)

This would mean the Jazz finish 18-10. I definitely think we can do a game or two better than that.
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We will do better than 18-10 over the last 28.

A team with a +8.3 Net Rating is not going to win only 64% of their remaining games. Statistically improbable.

We're going 21-7 minimum. Trust me. That puts us at 57-25 and that will be a 2/3 seed. I'm confident we're getting the 2 seed.

Just trust me on dis fellas
 
Jingled said:
I really hate how the NBA works sometimes. It's pretty much impossible for small market teams like the Jazz to compete with the big market teams.

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We can compete but there are huge competitive advantages glamour markets have. Clips also willing to ****ing go for it... they’ve pushed all in and will invest a ton in luxury tax going forward. This isn’t just like the Lakers falling *** backwards into guys. Clips are going for it. To get to where they are they’ve made like 2-3 moves we wouldn’t have... they were totally willing to trade good for great.
 
This is also why the “we will be active in the buyout market” was hilarious. You think finding trades with limited assets is hard... go ahead and try to sign guys that can go to LA or Miami for the same money... hell even Texas is tax free. We are at a pretty heavy competitive disadvantage.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
This is also why the “we will be active in the buyout market” was hilarious. You think finding trades with limited assets is hard... go ahead and try to sign guys that can go to LA or Miami for the same money... hell even Texas is tax free. We are at a pretty heavy competitive disadvantage.
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Though I think the big markets have an advantage, I don't think it's as big as sometimes we perceive it (not that it doesn't exist). It's similar to thinking the "cool guys" get all the girls. Part of the reason why is the belief that's perpetuated that... 'the cool guys get all the girls,' so all the other guys don't try as are or are intimidated. They end up not pursuing opportunities because they "know their place." Or are "realists" or some other lame excuse like that that tends to self-impose limits on themselves.
 
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