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We’re getting pie faced on Last Dance

Try being a Knick fan. The Last Dance has spit all over the Knicks. Heck, last night they even had a trivia question during the commercial break whose sole purpose was to mock the Knicks:

Q: Jordan eliminated 20 Hall Of Famers from the playoffs. Who did he eliminate most?
A: Ewing - four times.

The Knicks were by far the toughest opponent the Bulls had to get through. Yes, Utah was a top team, but we had Oak Tree, Anthony Mason, Xavier McDaniel, Ewing....monsters. The Last Dance did not make it clear that if Jordan did not exist the Knicks would have won four Championships during those years.
 
I've brought this up so many times to folks when I say we got screwed. The pushoff was nothing... but we would have had a 5 point swing on stuff they could legitimately review nowadays. The Eisley one was the worst. Replay of the game is on tonight... I swear with like a minute left every time I watch it I think we will pull it out...

You talking game 6 in ‘98? I never thought we would. The entire time I thought we’d choke it away somehow. And we did.
 
MTJK liked this. Just think of how many titles Carmelo could rack up during this crisis. They could get the hype machine going and generate lots of excitement as Carmelo becomes the Kobe torch-bearer. It would be like Linsanity never happened, and it was all Anthsanity and he wins multiple chips.
We wouldn't need CGI to win titles. MJ eliminated us four times so all we would have needed was for those four numbskulls who worked in that Utah pizza joint to have used a better poison on Jordan.

And, believe it, no CGI is needed to make Lin look great. You Jazz fans saw that first-hand. Lin's second game was against the Jazz. I do recall Lin had a quadruple triple.
 
You talking game 6 in ‘98? I never thought we would. The entire time I thought we’d choke it away somehow. And we did.

Yes, but we were up like 3 with 45 seconds left and I felt okay about it... up one with the ball. We needed like one thing to go the other way... and they all went the wrong way. At the time in 1998 I had too much Jordan PTSD and I knew we'd lose. Years later I watch it and I'm like "we got this... see you in game 7 Mike". Then somehow we lose every time.
 
Yes, but we were up like 3 with 45 seconds left and I felt okay about it... up one with the ball. We needed like one thing to go the other way... and they all went the wrong way. At the time in 1998 I had too much Jordan PTSD and I knew we'd lose. Years later I watch it and I'm like "we got this... see you in game 7 Mike". Then somehow we lose every time.

Yeah, I know. I still vividly recall watching it live. I was nervous and just felt in my heart of hearts MJ was gonna find a way...and sure enough... dumbass ****ing Malone.
 
I was I think 17-18 ears old. Watched both series live, I refuse to relive it. Absolutely refuse!!
I was 27-28 years old during the 2 runs. My wife worked as a nanny for a woman who was an accountant with the Larry Miller group and she had 4 seats in about row 10. She gave them to us for 2 finals games each year. I was at the flu game. Jordan looked so spent. It was both awesome and terrible to have been to close to glory. I refuse to watch the Jordan puff piece. **** him and **** the Bulls and **** the NBA too, and **** to hell whoever decided to make that piece of **** masturbatory "documentary".
 
I was 27-28 years old during the 2 runs. My wife worked as a nanny for a woman who was an accountant with the Larry Miller group and she had 4 seats in about row 10. She gave them to us for 2 finals games each year. I was at the flu game. Jordan looked so spent. It was both awesome and terrible to have been to close to glory. I refuse to watch the Jordan puff piece. **** him and **** the Bulls and **** the NBA too, and **** to hell whoever decided to make that piece of **** masturbatory "documentary".
It is less of a documentary and more of MJ's perspective, but its been awesome to watch and relive (haven't watched 8/9 and that is where the hurt is).

The thing about it that has struck me... there were a lot of moments that could have gone the other way and his career would look more like Lebron's (lots of wins, but some mingled losses). It is a make or miss world and he happened to make all the big shots... or his teammates did. So many tipping points went his way, but dude was a force... I can't imagine the daily pressure he felt to be the best.

Its been a fun watch.
 
I won't ever watch that game again. what even made it worse is how little (almost none) even mentioned the bad calls. If that had happened to the Bulls that is all they would have talked about and show the clip hundreds of times.
 
I haven't watched a second of this series as I knew it was just make me angry. I've repressed enough info from the glory days to invite that back into my life.
 
I was 27-28 years old during the 2 runs. My wife worked as a nanny for a woman who was an accountant with the Larry Miller group and she had 4 seats in about row 10. She gave them to us for 2 finals games each year. I was at the flu game. Jordan looked so spent. It was both awesome and terrible to have been to close to glory. I refuse to watch the Jordan puff piece. **** him and **** the Bulls and **** the NBA too, and **** to hell whoever decided to make that piece of **** masturbatory "documentary".
And why aren't you holding yourself accountable? Why didn't you heckle harder?
 
And why aren't you holding yourself accountable? Why didn't you heckle harder?
I heckled the hardest. My wife actually went and going another seat because I was "embarrassing" her. Pshhh.
 
Maybe the NBA can explain Dick Bavetta's total incompetence in the MJ flu game when he basically cost the Jazz 7 points over the course of the game with shot clock violations/non violations and how no foul was called on Jordan when put a hit on the Mailman that would call for a 15 yard penalty and ejection in today's NFL. I'm not bitter.....

Wrong year. That was game six of the 1998 NBA Finals.

The Flu Game was game five of the 1997 NBA Finals.
 
You talking game 6 in ‘98? I never thought we would. The entire time I thought we’d choke it away somehow. And we did.

Over the last few weeks, I've had time to revisit a lot of Jazz playoff games due to a lack of actual sports and not being able to do anything.

It's quite clear the Jazz just aren't destined to ever win a NBA title - at least, not those 90s Jazz. It's crazy insane how much went right for them over the years, just to have everything blow up in their face. Some of it was bad draws - other moments came down to just ******** the bed when it counted the most.

In 1988, when Utah took the Lakers to the brink, and positioned themselves as the future of the NBA, they defeated the Blazers 3-1 in the first-round series. It was a fairly dominant overall series, with Utah winning three-straight to close it out at the Salt Palace (4/5 game - Portland had home court). Portland was another up-and-coming team, now with Clyde Drexler manning the ship. 1988 was the first time the team had won 50+ games since the year after they won the NBA title back in '77. This was a good gauge match-up. What I mean by that is you had two upstart teams playing one another for potentially a chance to take the leap to being REALLY good.

Utah beat the Blazers. Nearly upset the Lakers and then...

In 1989, the Jazz finished a strong regular season, grabbed the second seed, won 50+ games for the first time in franchise history...and got swept by the Warriors in the first-round.

A year later, Utah won even more games, but because of a quirk in the seeding, their inability to win the Midwest dropped them to fourth and a first-round series versus the Suns. It was a series the Jazz would lose in five.

Meanwhile, Portland had just wrapped up a stellar season, winning 59 games, and ran through the west to the NBA Finals before losing to the Pistons 4-1.

The Jazz finally found their postseason footing again in 1991, beating the Suns ... but then they lost to ... Portland. In just a few short years, the Blazers had eclipsed the Jazz. Portland would go on to lose to the Lakers in the WCF.

The Jazz finally made the WCF in 1992 ... only to run into Portland, who they'd lose to 4-2.

The good news is that was pretty much it for Portland. And this is kind of where a story starts to unfold for the Jazz. One nemesis would retreat - only to be replaced by another.

After a lackluster 1993 season, that saw the Jazz just completely do nothing, Utah bounced back strongly in 1994, making the WCF only to face the Houston Rockets, who beat 'em pretty good. Portland wouldn't get out of the first round again until 1999 (where they returned as a Jazz nemesis) but now it was the Rockets screwing everything up.

But this kind of goes back to my overall point about the Jazz doing nothing with luck. In 1994, Utah was not going to make the WCF. Not with how the season finished. But then Denver beat Seattle, knocking the Sonics, who had the best record in the NBA, out of the playoffs. A similar situation happened to the Jazz a decade later in 2007. To Utah's credit, they didn't completely suck *** against Denver, though they absolutely tried, blowing a 3-0 series lead and having to win in seven, but they got absolutely trashed by the Rockets in the WCF.

A year later, and it's Houston again. But this is the real season where luck hurt the Jazz. Utah actually had the second-best record in the WC, and had won 60 games, but because the stupid Spurs (another team that was *** for most the 90s in the playoffs) won the Midwest Division, the Jazz were dropped to the third seed and opened against the Rockets. This was ****. Total ****. Even though the Jazz was better than their seed, so was Houston. And Utah just wasn't going to beat the Rockets. Not in a five-game series. Make that a seven and I think Utah advances. Alas, they choked in game five at home and blew their best opportunity to win the NBA title. Yes, I say their best - even better than any of the two NBA Finals runs.

Why? Because the only two teams standing in their way were the Suns, who Utah matched up well with, and the Spurs, who the Jazz so thoroughly dominated whenever the two met in the playoffs during the 90s.

Utah wins that game five and they win the NBA Championship. This I know.

But that's the luck blowing up in their face. They didn't luck out with seeding but they sure lucked out not having the potential to play the Bulls in the NBA Finals, as MJ had returned but was not at peak-MJ, so, the Bulls weren't the Bulls and got bounced in the semifinals. The Magic won the East that year. Utah would've swept 'em, or won in five at the worst.

And who knows, maybe finally getting it done, not choking away a series, as they had done a few times before, gives them that toughness they need to go into Chicago in 1997 to beat the Bulls. Or maybe it gives 'em the toughness to win game seven a year later against the Sonics. ****, the Jazz could have built themselves into a dynasty had they not just choked the goddamn game against Houston in 1995.

But that became an ever present theme of the Stockton-Malone led Jazz. Utah choked game five of the first round. Bounced out of the playoffs in a year the NBA title is literally up for grabs. A year later, in the WCF, they fall to 1-3 against the Sonics, and even when they rally, they still can't close the deal in game seven on the road. They then choke away game one of the NBA Finals at the line, with Malone missing two free throws that would have put the Jazz up with only seconds left. 1998 was an even worse choke job, as the Jazz blew a 1-0 lead, and home court.

To be honest, had Stockton's three rimmed out against Houston, and that game goes to overtime, I suspect the Jazz would've choked that one away, too, and likely would have lost game seven because that's just in their DNA. Or was.
 
Over the last few weeks, I've had time to revisit a lot of Jazz playoff games due to a lack of actual sports and not being able to do anything.

It's quite clear the Jazz just aren't destined to ever win a NBA title - at least, not those 90s Jazz. It's crazy insane how much went right for them over the years, just to have everything blow up in their face. Some of it was bad draws - other moments came down to just ******** the bed when it counted the most.

In 1988, when Utah took the Lakers to the brink, and positioned themselves as the future of the NBA, they defeated the Blazers 3-1 in the first-round series. It was a fairly dominant overall series, with Utah winning three-straight to close it out at the Salt Palace (4/5 game - Portland had home court). Portland was another up-and-coming team, now with Clyde Drexler manning the ship. 1988 was the first time the team had won 50+ games since the year after they won the NBA title back in '77. This was a good gauge match-up. What I mean by that is you had two upstart teams playing one another for potentially a chance to take the leap to being REALLY good.

Utah beat the Blazers. Nearly upset the Lakers and then...

In 1989, the Jazz finished a strong regular season, grabbed the second seed, won 50+ games for the first time in franchise history...and got swept by the Warriors in the first-round.

A year later, Utah won even more games, but because of a quirk in the seeding, their inability to win the Midwest dropped them to fourth and a first-round series versus the Suns. It was a series the Jazz would lose in five.

Meanwhile, Portland had just wrapped up a stellar season, winning 59 games, and ran through the west to the NBA Finals before losing to the Pistons 4-1.

The Jazz finally found their postseason footing again in 1991, beating the Suns ... but then they lost to ... Portland. In just a few short years, the Blazers had eclipsed the Jazz. Portland would go on to lose to the Lakers in the WCF.

The Jazz finally made the WCF in 1992 ... only to run into Portland, who they'd lose to 4-2.

The good news is that was pretty much it for Portland. And this is kind of where a story starts to unfold for the Jazz. One nemesis would retreat - only to be replaced by another.

After a lackluster 1993 season, that saw the Jazz just completely do nothing, Utah bounced back strongly in 1994, making the WCF only to face the Houston Rockets, who beat 'em pretty good. Portland wouldn't get out of the first round again until 1999 (where they returned as a Jazz nemesis) but now it was the Rockets screwing everything up.

But this kind of goes back to my overall point about the Jazz doing nothing with luck. In 1994, Utah was not going to make the WCF. Not with how the season finished. But then Denver beat Seattle, knocking the Sonics, who had the best record in the NBA, out of the playoffs. A similar situation happened to the Jazz a decade later in 2007. To Utah's credit, they didn't completely suck *** against Denver, though they absolutely tried, blowing a 3-0 series lead and having to win in seven, but they got absolutely trashed by the Rockets in the WCF.

A year later, and it's Houston again. But this is the real season where luck hurt the Jazz. Utah actually had the second-best record in the WC, and had won 60 games, but because the stupid Spurs (another team that was *** for most the 90s in the playoffs) won the Midwest Division, the Jazz were dropped to the third seed and opened against the Rockets. This was ****. Total ****. Even though the Jazz was better than their seed, so was Houston. And Utah just wasn't going to beat the Rockets. Not in a five-game series. Make that a seven and I think Utah advances. Alas, they choked in game five at home and blew their best opportunity to win the NBA title. Yes, I say their best - even better than any of the two NBA Finals runs.

Why? Because the only two teams standing in their way were the Suns, who Utah matched up well with, and the Spurs, who the Jazz so thoroughly dominated whenever the two met in the playoffs during the 90s.

Utah wins that game five and they win the NBA Championship. This I know.

But that's the luck blowing up in their face. They didn't luck out with seeding but they sure lucked out not having the potential to play the Bulls in the NBA Finals, as MJ had returned but was not at peak-MJ, so, the Bulls weren't the Bulls and got bounced in the semifinals. The Magic won the East that year. Utah would've swept 'em, or won in five at the worst.

And who knows, maybe finally getting it done, not choking away a series, as they had done a few times before, gives them that toughness they need to go into Chicago in 1997 to beat the Bulls. Or maybe it gives 'em the toughness to win game seven a year later against the Sonics. ****, the Jazz could have built themselves into a dynasty had they not just choked the goddamn game against Houston in 1995.

But that became an ever present theme of the Stockton-Malone led Jazz. Utah choked game five of the first round. Bounced out of the playoffs in a year the NBA title is literally up for grabs. A year later, in the WCF, they fall to 1-3 against the Sonics, and even when they rally, they still can't close the deal in game seven on the road. They then choke away game one of the NBA Finals at the line, with Malone missing two free throws that would have put the Jazz up with only seconds left. 1998 was an even worse choke job, as the Jazz blew a 1-0 lead, and home court.

To be honest, had Stockton's three rimmed out against Houston, and that game goes to overtime, I suspect the Jazz would've choked that one away, too, and likely would have lost game seven because that's just in their DNA. Or was.

Great post. Really makes you wonder why the jazz were so inconsistent in the playoffs, and why there was such a stark drop-off in performance. To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if Sloan deserves more of the blame. I've heard that his sets worked so well in the regular season because teams didn't have time to prepare, whereas when they had more time for preparation they knew how to handle the P&R. One thing I noticed in The Last Dance episodes was seeing players constantly leaving MJ to double down on Longley, Pippen, or Harper in the post... thus leaving MJ open for uncontested shots. That's coaching. And makes no sense.

I'm not sure though. At least with those final appearances, the lack of a championship can be attributed to the level of clutchness. Malone missing those FTs. Malone not boxing out Kukoc in game 5 in 97. Stockton averaging 9-10ppg in 98. The bench failing to show up in 98.

I think you're right though. The Jazz just aren't a lucky organization in the playoffs.
 
I was 14 and 15 when the Jazz lost those two finals, and maybe that's part of the reason why it still hurts all these years later.

And the most ridiculous thing 20+ years after is not just how close the Jazz were, but how any trade that even moved the needle slightly would've won a championship, but the Jazz just never made it. The Jazz actually never made a trade during those two seasons. This is actually ludicrous from a team so close to a title.

During the whole 97-98 season, the Jazz only made two moves: signing William Cunningham and Troy Hudson, then cutting them both long before playoffs started. The season before, the Jazz signed Stephen Howard and Ruben Nembhard. In August 1996, the Jazz traded Felton Spencer for two players who would be cut by the second week of season(and Andrei Kirilenko, but no one knew that at the time). In two years, the Jazz made no trades whatsoever and signed 4 players who would've struggled to start on a G-League team.

Ridiculously, the Jazz also made no trades in the 95-96 season. The last trade that netted the Jazz anyone who would actually play in the 1998 NBA Finals happened in September of 1994. Think about that. 4 years! Four years during which the Jazz won 60, 55, 64, and 62 games and were a dead-serious contender and the front office couldn't pull off one trade. Yes, I know about Harper and Seikaly and all that. But 4 years, and the best the Jazz could do was trade Spencer for a pick. I know the Jazz were by no means loaded with talent or other trade bait, but Chris Morris had a big expiring contract. The Jazz owned their own FRP from '96 to 2002. None of that could've been traded for anything?
 
I refuse to watch the Jordan puff piece. **** him and **** the Bulls and **** the NBA too, and **** to hell whoever decided to make that piece of **** masturbatory "documentary"
Exactly how I felt.
Great post. Really makes you wonder why the jazz were so inconsistent in the playoffs, and why there was such a stark drop-off in performance. To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if Sloan deserves more of the blame. I've heard that his sets worked so well in the regular season because teams didn't have time to prepare, whereas when they had more time for preparation they knew how to handle the P&R. One thing I noticed in The Last Dance episodes was seeing players constantly leaving MJ to double down on Longley, Pippen, or Harper in the post... thus leaving MJ open for uncontested shots. That's coaching. And makes no sense.

I'm not sure though. At least with those final appearances, the lack of a championship can be attributed to the level of clutchness. Malone missing those FTs. Malone not boxing out Kukoc in game 5 in 97. Stockton averaging 9-10ppg in 98. The bench failing to show up in 98.

I think you're right though. The Jazz just aren't a lucky organization in the playoffs.
They were inconsistent because Stockton and Malone were older, Hornacek had two shot to hell knees, and the supporting cast was ***. Go @ yourself. Sloan wasn’t to blame you utter idiot. He’s not the one that blew all those late game screw ups and blown calls and bad breaks. Jordan himself said the jazz were his toughest test of all his finals appearances.
The Jazz actually never made a trade during those two seasons. This is actually ludicrous from a team so close to a title.
And exactly what were the jazz going to get that would’ve put them over Jordan and the bulls. They weren’t going to trade Stockton or Malone, Horny was on his last legs and a bunch of scrub bench players. Most were old or young and not worth ****. So, for a team winning 55+ games why make bi Wholesale changes. Even had we made a trade, it wouldn’t have gotten a chip. It was a veteran team that was just too old with not enough defense or playmaking to overcome the goat
 
Exactly how I felt.

They were inconsistent because Stockton and Malone were older, Hornacek had two shot to hell knees, and the supporting cast was ***. Go @ yourself. Sloan wasn’t to blame you utter idiot. He’s not the one that blew all those late game screw ups and blown calls and bad breaks. Jordan himself said the jazz were his toughest test of all his finals appearances.

And exactly what were the jazz going to get that would’ve put them over Jordan and the bulls. They weren’t going to trade Stockton or Malone, Horny was on his last legs and a bunch of scrub bench players. Most were old or young and not worth ****. So, for a team winning 55+ games why make bi Wholesale changes. Even had we made a trade, it wouldn’t have gotten a chip. It was a veteran team that was just too old with not enough defense or playmaking to overcome the goat

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