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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

Release the Kraken said:
They would come in handy for us though as well! Unless Ainge is now leaning into the lottery game for this season.:oops:
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After a 10-3 start, we are now just 9-14 over our last 23 games. We are a play-in team at best. It wouldn't be too surprising to see Ainge move some of the veterans and lean into tanking a little more over the second half of the season to improve our draft pick.
 
Jingled said:
After a 10-3 start, we are now just 9-14 over our last 23 games. We are a play-in team at best. It wouldn't be too surprising to see Ainge move some of the veterans and lean into tanking a little more over the second half of the season to improve our draft pick.
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Very true! Due to his age, demeanor and untapped potential, just hoping to see Vando particularly, around for awhile, that’s all.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
And this deal has Utah taking back JC, but with KO being added....
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What do you think KO gets by himself on the market without taking back a bad contract… a couple seconds?

Also we asked for two firsts in the deal… sounds to me that if they said yes then the trade happens… so what we ask for or “demand” as some have said and what we will get are different things. The ask is fairly high… moving up 10+ spots in the first round would be worth at least a first and we get the other first from Phoenix… KO being added is to bridge the value delta… and it’s not a big ask.
 
Release the Kraken said:
Very true! Due to his age, demeanor and untapped potential, just hoping to see Vando particularly, around for awhile, that’s all.
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I don’t get the untapped potential… I see some things here and there that are mildly intriguing but I think he is 90% of the player he will be.
 
Release the Kraken said:
Very true! Due to his age, demeanor and untapped potential, just hoping to see Vando particularly, around for awhile, that’s all.
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I'm afraid you may be disappointed because I actually think Vando might be the most likely guy to be traded before the deadline.
 
The main part of the John Collins argument is just the difference between how teams view his contract. Atlanta may think the dollars are fine there but they just have too many commitments. I think he is mildly overpaid the next two years but when the cap jumps in two years he will, hopefully, be a little underpaid.

Ainge is treating him like a semi-toxic deal in the negotiation... Atlanta likely saying he's a great value. The reason we may get a solid deal is Atlanta has been looking for buyers for a while and found the market barren - for what they are asking. So now they could maybe pawn him off for expiring's and a late first somewhere, but that doesn't help them win now... so expirings attached to usable players is the compromise. This trade deadline is kind of the show your cards moment for Atlanta because it will be hard to move Collins this summer for just cap space and recoup some value. So its either dive head first into a decent tax bill (something they have shown they will not do) or sell John for the best offer... which may end up being a decent value for someone.
 
Jingled said:
I'm afraid you may be disappointed because I actually think Vando might be the most likely guy to be traded before the deadline.
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That might be a fun exercise.. ranking the Jazz players in a most likely to be traded list... I think you might be right.
 
trading Bogey too soon shows how being impatient can be a mistake. I am sure if the Jazz held onto Bogey longer they would have gotten a first. Now people are trying to get him away from the Pistons.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
What do you think KO gets by himself on the market without taking back a bad contract… a couple seconds?

Also we asked for two firsts in the deal… sounds to me that if they said yes then the trade happens… so what we ask for or “demand” as some have said and what we will get are different things. The ask is fairly high… moving up 10+ spots in the first round would be worth at least a first and we get the other first from Phoenix… KO being added is to bridge the value delta… and it’s not a big ask.
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I think your trade is fine and fair, and I'd maybe do it. I think maybe KO could get you a first from a team like Golden State. I think he is super valuable (might be the best "win now" player who is likely to be traded over Clarkson or Beasley) and would be a perfect fit for them.

I'm just saying based on the fact that Utah vetoed a similar trade w/o KO because they wanted multiple first, I dont see them budging for a single pick and a swap while including KO.

What we know about Danny is that he isnt going to back down all that much.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I don’t get the untapped potential… I see some things here and there that are mildly intriguing but I think he is 90% of the player he will be.
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So you’re saying there’s a chance!!!!

But seriously, better #s than Collins this year and what is it, 38% I think from three this year when he’d only shot a handful of threes prior. Trending upward I’d say.
 
Jingled said:
I'm afraid you may be disappointed because I actually think Vando might be the most likely guy to be traded before the deadline.
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Yeah prolly! I’m also disappointed cause I was hoping we’d be buyers or even up traders and not sellers.

Love to unload Gay, Fontechio, Bolmaro and maybe even THT for something more useful. :p
 
Release the Kraken said:
So you’re saying there’s a chance!!!!

But seriously, better #s than Collins this year and what is it, 38% I think from three this year when he’d only shot a handful of threes prior. Trending upward I’d say.
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Vando only makes corner threes. He makes them at a high percentage which is great. His release seems to be speeding up a bit... the issue is if you close out hard to the corner you can run him off that without much of a penalty. Collins can do more on a drive in that scenario so you need to hug him tighter (he's 36% for his career and that is the number to look at... not a super limited one year sample). There is just more John can do in the middle of the floor as a screener and in the DHO actions that Vando doesn't do. I think Collins is a better defender overall as well.
 
Release the Kraken said:
So you’re saying there’s a chance!!!!

But seriously, better #s than Collins this year and what is it, 38% I think from three this year when he’d only shot a handful of threes prior. Trending upward I’d say.
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What do you think Collins 3PT% would be if he only shot the threes that Vando shoots?
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Here is the Collins deal I would do:

Phoenix gets Beasley, Vando
Phoenix gives Crowder, Saric, 2024 FRP top 5 protected until it conveys.

Atlanta gives: John Collins and swap rights with their 2023 first with the pick Utah owns from Brooklyn or Philly
Atlanta gets: Crowder, Kelly O

Utah Gives: KO, Beasley, Vando
Utah Gets: Collins, Saric, 2024 1st and the swap rights with the 2023 Brooklyn pick from Atlanta.
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Just going back to this trade, PHX is getting a lot for giving up very little.

Saric is trash. Jae is refusing to play for them. Their pick next year will likely be mediocre. They get back an elite or near elite shooter and a great hustle player. Both on team friendly deals.

PHX has to be put something else on the table or at least make the pick completely unprotected.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I think your trade is fine and fair, and I'd maybe do it. I think maybe KO could get you a first from a team like Golden State. I think he is super valuable (might be the best "win now" player who is likely to be traded over Clarkson or Beasley) and would be a perfect fit for them.

I'm just saying based on the fact that Utah vetoed a similar trade w/o KO because they wanted multiple first, I dont see them budging for a single pick and a swap while including KO.

What we know about Danny is that he isnt going to back down all that much.
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And I think you could easily say the swap is worth as much or more than a late first round pick. You've essentially hedged against like 3 Eastern conference teams... Bucks Celtics, Cavs likely lock in the top 6 Nets, Sixers the next two that are basically locks unless KD and Embiid get hurt. So you are just counting on one of NY, Miami, Indiana, or Toronto pushing Atlanta to the play in... once you are in the play in anything can happen... you may have moved up from like 27 to 14... which would cost more than a first.

I just list that to say I don't think its settling. I think Ainge does plenty of deals where he backs down a bit. KO isn't getting a first on his own without some pretty ****** contract attached to it imo. Specifically GS doesn't really have the salary to do a deal where he nabs a first. Maybe you can nab Moody but Wiseman almost has to be in the deal and that would look so bad for GS I doubt they do it. Would Miami do a first for KO and send back Duncan and his deal? That's the type of trade I think you'd be looking at.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Vando only makes corner threes. He makes them at a high percentage which is great. His release seems to be speeding up a bit... the issue is if you close out hard to the corner you can run him off that without much of a penalty. Collins can do more on a drive in that scenario so you need to hug him tighter (he's 36% for his career and that is the number to look at... not a super limited one year sample). There is just more John can do in the middle of the floor as a screener and in the DHO actions that Vando doesn't do. I think Collins is a better defender overall as well.
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True, I mean I know about his storied career at Wake and he’s athletic as ****! It’s more the selfishness and unhappy reputation I’m worried about. Truth be told, if we indeed get two firsts out of it, it’s an excellent gamble with trade partners at their weakest position.

I’m prolly more disappointed that it prolly signals a fall from playoff contention. I think Hardy plays to win, he’s hardwired like that, but it will take Collins a while to fit in (if he does) and we’ll be missing Beasley’s clutch-ness and Vando’s hustle.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Just going back to this trade, PHX is getting a lot for giving up very little.

Saric is trash. Jae is refusing to play for them. Their pick next year will likely be mediocre. They get back an elite or near elite shooter and a great hustle player. Both on team friendly deals.

PHX has to be put something else on the table or at least make the pick completely unprotected.
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Just because Jae isn't playing for them doesn't mean he is nothing in the deal. At a minimum I am sure there are offers for multiple seconds on the table for him... so that value has to be considered.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Just because Jae isn't playing for them doesn't mean he is nothing in the deal. At a minimum I am sure there are offers for multiple seconds on the table for him... so that value has to be considered.
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Sure, of course, but damn, they are getting two very quality rotation players on multi-year team friendly deals. 2nd round picks have very little value to the Suns. Suns either got to take a bigger risk on the pick, or add some 2nds.
 
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