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The Biden Administration and All Things Politics

Safetydan said:
You asked the same thing to me in the other thread, so I'll respond here.

First on the messaging front. You don't have to tie the bad economy to Biden, It's clear that the economy has been moving in a certain direction for a while now. income inequality and qol indicators have been on the decline for median-income earners since the 80s. You, as a democrat strategist, could argue that Brandon did the hard work of undoing the damage of the trump admin and now its time to go in a bold new direction. I don't think this is difficult.

As for Specific Policy, I have a wish list but realistically, at the very least, they could have taken Tim Walz's economic accomplishments which are extremely popular in Minnesota and rolled them out to the nation. https://mn.gov/governor/accomplishments/accomplishments.jsp You can add things like M4A, Climate Change Initiatives, stronger protections for Unionized Labor, updating national infrastructure, public transportation improvements. You said they're doing a few of these things but I mean compared to what Walz accomplished in Minnesota, most of what they're proposing is tame, neutered, or off the table.

Sure, Fox news would lampoon them as socialist or whatever but they do that with everything. Let them denigrate feeding hungry kids and lowering poverty (and as a result, crime) as socialism.

What do you want to see the government focus on? I think you, as an average guy, wanted something, that that thing would be broadly popular. Don't let people tell you that the things that are objectively good for a nation's citizens are unrealistic and broadly hated. I don't buy it.
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Good post. Next question. Why doesn't anyone campaign on this platform then. Campaigns spend a ton of money researching what will get voters to vote for them. Why do you think this info that you have and know will be successful is not available/understood by these presidential campaigns/candidates?
 
Safetydan said:
I don't think they do. That's my conclusion. They'd rather lose or win a close one than improve the lives of average citizens at their own expense and/or they buy into the myth that these things are untenable. To them it's a convenient lie to propogate.
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But thats the thing. They dont have to improve anyones lives after they win. They run on those things you suggested, get the votes, get into office and say that they tried to fight against the swamp and implement all the wonderful things but the other side blocked everything (this would probably be true anyways so they wouldn't even be lying to us) that they tried to pass.

Candidates ALWAYS say they are gonna do lots of **** to get votes and then never do it.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
If they get absolutely obliterated in an election, at least we learned something.
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This is the best answer so far, thanks. Im shocked that it hasn't been attempted if its certain to be successful (not saying you think its certain to be successful but some people seem to think so)

I mean, kamala is seen by moderate republicans as an extreme leftist lol.
 
Sardines said:
From what Safetydan said earlier today, the people who control the DNC do not want those policies to happen.

The DNC is essentially a main stream, corporate friendly party lead by people who are due a piece of the pie when corporate America thrives.
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Again, lie to the voters, get the votes, win the election, dont implement the policies. Blame it on the republicans and moderate democrats in congress. Easy peasy.
 
fishonjazz said:
Again, lie to the voters, get the votes, win the election, dont implement the policies. Blame it on the republicans and moderate democrats in congress. Easy peasy.
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The ideas might get a life of their own if they are too popular.

I deleted the post you quoted because Safetydan answered for their self before I hit the post button.
 
Douchebag K said:
dude everyone knows about the Hilary thing. My recollection was that Bernies potential polling v Trump was really good, and that he was perceived as far more likeable than Hilary so wouldn't have the same issues. And you're right i'd guessing there is a portion of the population male and female who just won't vote for a woman.
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The only thing up for debate there is what that proportion is. But there is absolutely a percentage of the population that just simply won't vote for a woman.
 
fishonjazz said:
Good post. Next question. Why doesn't anyone campaign on this platform then. Campaigns spend a ton of money researching what will get voters to vote for them. Why do you think this info that you have and know will be successful is not available/understood by these presidential campaigns/candidates?
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This is a two parter I'll respond to your second post too.

I'll focus on the insular nature of D.C. culture. I've talked to many people who interact with these insiders. They're universally surprised at how out of touch many of these people are. They only talk to like minded people and our legacy media also buys into and propagates the narrative so there's a bit of a feedback loop that will reject many of these ideas out of pure "common wisdom". This is by design.
 
Sardines said:
The ideas might get a life of their own if they are too popular.
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I guess so. But I feel like the ideas wouldn't be popular with congress and would get killed on arrival. Maybe not but it just seems like lobbyists would still exist, corporate america would still exist and money would still rule even if bernie were president
 
fishonjazz said:
But thats the thing. They dont have to improve anyones lives after they win. They run on those things you suggested, get the votes, get into office and say that they tried to fight against the swamp and implement all the wonderful things but the other side blocked everything (this would probably be true anyways so they wouldn't even be lying to us) that they tried to pass.

Candidates ALWAYS say they are gonna do lots of **** to get votes and then never do it.
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If somebody were to campaign on something like M4A and win in a landslide, the cat is out of the bag at that point. They'd have no excuses if they had a majority in both houses of Congress. They'd lose their messaging leverage and longevity for not delivering.

This is conjecture on my part. I do want to see it attempted but I think this is why they wouldn't do that. They need that carrot out in front of the horse as long as they can keep it there.

Letting Bernie through their primary gives the game away so to speak so of course they did what they could to ensure he'd lose.
 
fishonjazz said:
I guess so. But I feel like the ideas wouldn't be popular with congress and would get killed on arrival. Maybe not but it just seems like lobbyists would still exist, corporate america would still exist and money would still rule even if bernie were president
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Yeah, I mean you're right.

Thanks for bringing me back to the depressing reality of U.S. politics.
 
Sardines said:
You love all those things and YOU are not an extreme leftist. You are probably very representative of the majority of Americans as far as I can gather and combine with my own assumptions. I think going with those very popular ideas, at least some of them, is so crazy it just might work.

My daughter is 23. She will not be voting in this election. As far as I can tell (she is extraordinarily guarded and has been since she could talk. My wife and I used to joke when she was like 5-8 that she'd make a good CIA agent because no one and nothing can make her talk) she is actually an extreme leftist. Very supportive of women's rights and of the LGBTQ community. She won't vote because Kamala isn't good enough to vote for, she's just another corporatist shill (my words, not hers). Even though she thinks Trump is evil, she doesn't care who wins if neither of them represents her ideology.
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I missed this post. Its a good one and makes a good point.
 
Thanks for all the really great responses. I was mostly playing devils advocate here.
 
Just realized I like jazzfanz way more on the actual web browser vs tapatalk. I usually use tapatalk because its way faster and easier to use but I think this discussion has convinced me to delete tapatalk and just use the browser.
 
Safetydan said:
All of this considered, It sure must be hard running as a democrat for president. They're visibly walking a tight-rope out there all the time. This is why somebody who isn't the best on their feet, like Kamala, struggles to speak off the cuff.
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One silver lining of a trump win is that if kamala were to win then she would be the auto nominee next go around (as the incumbent) and that is no bueno.
trump wins and maybe the democratic candidate is Mayor Pete (my dream choice) or someone much better than kamala next time around.
 
fishonjazz said:
One silver lining of a trump win is that if kamala were to win then she would be the auto nominee next go around (as the incumbent) and that is no bueno.
trump wins and maybe the democratic candidate is Mayor Pete (my dream choice) or someone next time around.
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Plus I think this Trump term would dispel any illusions people still have about Trump being some great deal maker, international peace maker, freedom lover, and economist.
 
Sardines said:
Plus I think this Trump term would dispel any illusions people still have about Trump being some great deal maker, international peace maker, freedom lover, and economist.
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I agree as far as war stuff but I think the economy is going to be better regardless and he will take/get all the credit for the hard work the prior administration has done to recover post pandemic/supply chain issues etc. And the economy seems to be the only thing that anyone truly cares about anymore. If the economy is good then there could be wars going on all over the place and people wouldn't really care as long as it wasn't affecting us. Same with climate issues, culture war "woke" stuff etc. Thats the impression I get anyway. People have super fond memories of the **** show that was trumps presidency simply because stuff was cheap.

btw, tell your daughter that "perfect is the enemy of not the worst possible choice in the history of the world" ;) (in response to your earlier post)
 
fishonjazz said:
I agree as far as war stuff but I think the economy is going to be better regardless and he will take/get all the credit for the hard work the prior administration has done to recover post pandemic/supply chain issues etc. And the economy seems to be the only thing that anyone truly cares about anymore. If the economy is good then there could be wars going on all over the place and people wouldn't really care as long as it wasn't affecting us. Same with climate issues, culture war "woke" stuff etc. Thats the impression I get anyway. People have super fond memories of the **** show that was trumps presidency simply because stuff was cheap.

btw, tell your daughter that "perfect is the enemy of not the worst possible choice in the history of the world" ;) (in response to your earlier post)
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I'm curious what her response will be. Hit her with it.
 
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