What's new
By:

Collier Starting Over Keyonte: Are We Happy?

Saint Cy of JFC

Saint Cy of JFC

Well-Known Member
2022 Award Winner
Kind of shocked no thread has been created about this, because it's a fairly large development.

Once coined "Lisan Al-Gaib" by @Handlogten's Heros he is now relegated to being our 6th man (at least until a trade is made).

Locke podcast today basically stated Collier plays harder, so that's why he is starting now.

For the record: I think it's a great move. Collier has more potential as a PG and he is a much better defender. Along with Harkless, the Jazz now have some dogs on the defensive end and I hope they are rewarded with more minutes.
 
I think this is perfectly fine....I was uncomfortable with Key being Lisan Al Ghaib. Sexton probably getting traded anyways, which means Clarkson will start of course ;)

At some point the Jazz need to build a culture where defense is not an afterthought, and the best time to do that was yesterday.
 
KqWIN said:
I think this is perfectly fine....I was uncomfortable with Key being Lisan Al Ghaib. Sexton probably getting traded anyways, which means Clarkson will start of course ;)

At some point the Jazz need to build a culture where defense is not an afterthought, and the best time to do that was yesterday.
Click to expand...
I don't really blame too much of that on Hardy because they just havent had any defensive talent to develop. With Collier/Harkless, they are playing hard on D and getting rewarded with minutes, so I have more hope for Hardy's defensive coaching ability. We've just given him defensive garbage to work with for the most part.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Kind of shocked no thread has been created about this, because it's a fairly large development.

Once coined "Lisan Al-Gaib" by @Handlogten's Heros he is now relegated to being our 6th man (at least until a trade is made).

Locke podcast today basically stated Collier plays harder, so that's why he is starting now.

For the record: I think it's a great move. Collier has more potential as a PG and he is a much better defender. Along with Harkless, the Jazz now have some dogs on the defensive end and I hope they are rewarded with more minutes.
Click to expand...
I honestly wasn't sure what to make of it. I think part of it is keeping Collin in the starting lineup through the trade deadline. I think by end of the year its Collier and Key as the starters but I think its trending towards Key ending up being a 6th man type (tho he was awful last game there).

Hardy kinda just does stuff with the starters and bench and I've given up making sense of it.
 
Yes I'm fine with it. If Key's main job is to hoist 15-20 shots a game then let him do it coming off the bench and hope he gets hot every fifth game or so. He's probably a Clarkson type 6th man on a future Jazz team.

It's time to start setting a more defensive oriented culture. Players earn minutes playing hard on both ends of the court.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
I don't really blame too much of that on Hardy because they just havent had any defensive talent to develop. With Collier/Harkless, they are playing hard on D and getting rewarded with minutes, so I have more hope for Hardy's defensive coaching ability. We've just given him defensive garbage to work with for the most part.
Click to expand...

I thought it was wild for Hardy to say "we didn't focus on defense"....never seen a coach admit that even if it's the truth. Kessler played pretty soft last year, but I think there are very few coaches who would have benched him for Collins last year in a tanking situation. He also buried TH his rookie season, Ochai didn't have a great run here, didn't give Bazley a chance, and was slow initially to go to Dunn (he initially played all the chuckers instead). It's clear to me that Hardy hasn't prioritized defense in the past, he's said as much openly and his actions matched that. I'm very happy about this shift in focus.

There's also something to be said for the fact that if you're this terrible defense, it's everyone's fault. Players, FO, and coach included.
 
I'm looking at this more from a player development standpoint, since that's the most important thing to focus on for the rest of the year, in my opinion. I think that having Keyonte start and play the majority of his minutes with Lauri is best for his development, and I would prioritize developing Keyonte over Collier, for now.

I'm fine with this being a coaching tool to hold Keyonte accountable though, and hopefully Keyonte embraces the challenge and works his way back in to the starting lineup.

Secondarily it might give us a better look at Keyonte as a bench scorer, which could provide insight in to his potential future role.
 
SoberasHotRod said:
I'm looking at this more from a player development standpoint, since that's the most important thing to focus on for the rest of the year, in my opinion. I think that having Keyonte start and play the majority of his minutes with Lauri is best for his development, and I would prioritize developing Keyonte over Collier, for now.

I'm fine with this being a coaching tool to hold Keyonte accountable though, and hopefully Keyonte embraces the challenge and works his way back in to the starting lineup.

Secondarily it might give us a better look at Keyonte as a bench scorer, which could provide insight in to his potential future role.
Click to expand...

I think playing with Lauri is best to make him look good, is it really that important for him to play with him to develop?

FWIW, Key is playing better without Lauri on the court this year.
 
I’m good with him being a 6th man in the league but I’m not in favor of him losing his job to a rookie if they know they are soon to be trading Sexton. If that’s the case the Jazz should’ve waited a week or two when they eventually trade Sexton. Different players respond differently. Not sure how happy he is about losing his spot to Collier
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I honestly wasn't sure what to make of it. I think part of it is keeping Collin in the starting lineup through the trade deadline. I think by end of the year its Collier and Key as the starters but I think its trending towards Key ending up being a 6th man type (tho he was awful last game there).

Hardy kinda just does stuff with the starters and bench and I've given up making sense of it.
Click to expand...
Would be cool to see Harkless start at the 2. Harkless/Collier can be a positive defensive backcourt.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
I’m good with him being a 6th man in the league but I’m not in favor of him losing his job to a rookie if they know they are soon to be trading Sexton. If that’s the case the Jazz should’ve waited a week or two when they eventually trade Sexton. Different players respond differently. Not sure how happy he is about losing his spot to Collier
Click to expand...
You don’t bench guys you are about to trade. Key hasn’t played well and has been given more grace than any prospect. Tough love is justified if this is what it is.
 
Quote from 2023 draft thread:

"i'm not crazy on Keyonte, but prove me wrong young fella... Jordan Clarkson is pretty much a polished KG."
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Would be cool to see Harkless start at the 2. Harkless/Collier can be a positive defensive backcourt.
Click to expand...
He’s a come off the bench type of guy. If he was 6-5, ya, but he’s small for a 2. I’d start Juzang over him. Decent defender that can shoot the lights out. Let Harkless be a junk yard dawg type player off the bench.
 
I'm fine with it. I still think Keyonte has a higher ceiling (at PG, and/or off the ball) but if this is just part of his development arc, so be it. Looks like he'll still get plenty of minutes regardless.

Keyonte's struggles (regression?) this year has me slightly surprised. The lack of improvement in overall efficiency (shooting, especially finishing in the paint/getting to the line) will need to change if he's going to stick, either here or anywhere. That said, he's barely 21, so I'm not ready to make any broad-stroke statements about his long-term potential.

In the meantime, it will be good to see what Collier brings to the table as a starting PG. I still think he projects as a backup PG on a playoff/title contender but might as well give him run and see what we have there.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Never said to bench Sexton I said wait till after he’s traded then just move Collier to the starting 5 in a short week or two.
Click to expand...
Ehhh... do it now and send a message. Good hell... if he's pissed off about it and can't handle the push back then sorry. Its a good message with an easy out in a couple weeks if he plays harder and a move is made. He's rewarding Collier for doing something right here or just trying to find a great combo. Nothing about how Key has played really screams "unbenchable".

Sometimes kids need coddling. Sometimes they need a punishment.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
He’s a come off the bench type of guy. If he was 6-5, ya, but he’s small for a 2. I’d start Juzang over him. Decent defender that can shoot the lights out. Let Harkless be a junk yard dawg type player off the bench.
Click to expand...
Harkless's current DBPM would put him in the top 10 of all DBPM. Only other perimeter players with that high of DBPM are Dyson Daniels, Cason Wallace, Kris Dunn, and Amen Thompson. His size is basically irrelevant when compared to Juzang, he plays bigger.
 
KqWIN said:
I think playing with Lauri is best to make him look good, is it really that important for him to play with him to develop?

FWIW, Key is playing better without Lauri on the court this year.
Click to expand...

I don't really know, but I think so. I want him to have enough talent around him that he can learn to get others involved in the offense, but also have enough space to operate and not have too much on his shoulders.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page
Back
Top