D
Deleted member 365
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The Lakers haven't won a title without a very good center. Without Bynum, or had the Celtics had Perkins, they wouldn't have won it last year.
2011 Draft - Who don't you want?
- Thread starter UtahJazzV4FTW
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The Lakers haven't won a title without a very good center. Without Bynum, or had the Celtics had Perkins, they wouldn't have won it last year.
D
Deleted member 365
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That's the problem with some of you. You jump to conclusions. From one extreme to the other.
I didn't say DON'T DRAFT ANY EURO. I did however say that we should be very careful when drafting them. We don't know how they'll adapt to the culture here. We don't know if they'll learn English. We don't know if they're only looking good against poor competition. The euro style of play is so much different than the American it's not even funny. Even the key is different.
Drafting foreign is very risky folks. Lets be careful.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
I don't buy into the 'European players are soft' argument, but to be fair, Nash, Duncan, Mutumbo, and Olajuwon played (I think) four years D1 NCAA basketball at pretty good basketball schools (except maybe Santa Clara). (Also, Nash, Mutumbo, Duncan, Olajuwon were not European. Are we talking 'non-US' here or strictly 'European?')
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Rank speculation. You don't know that. What we do know is that until Gasol arrived, the Lakers were an almost guaranteed early playoff exit team. After he arrived, the Lakers won two titles and lost in 7 games in the championship. AND nobody disputes that Gasol was the #2 player on the team during the Laker's 3-year championship run.
So what if he's 'soft?' BFD. I'm sorry but you really seem to be missing the forest for the trees here.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
Not to belabor, but the success rate for drafting American is also a huge risk, as evidenced by the quite high failure rate of high draftees who make an impact. This is actually not merely a question of perception or opinion, it's actually an empirical question. Anyone got numbers to test this assertion? I'm quite skeptical that once we look at the numbers, they're actually as bad as you think they are. But like you, I'm only guessing.
gregbroncs
Well-Known Member
At 3 I don't want anybody but Kanter, D Williams, or Irving.
At 12 I don't want Jimmer
At 12 I don't want Jimmer
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
https://www.82games.com/nbadraft2.htm
A 2006 analysis of NBA Lottery Draft picks from 84 - 2003. There are obviously subjective components. At 11-14, the Euro vs College Guy debate is worthless. Nearly every guy was American.
The bottom line is anybody we draft at 12 historically has a 50% chance of straight busting. The puppy dogs and ice cream outlook says scouting has gotten better and the results have improved. Not so sure I'd buy that.
I'm not necessarily advocating this, but drafting a Euro you know is going to stay overseas in a weak draft has its practical advantages. So long as the guy doesn't regress, he retains his trade value and you don't start his salary clock. But, of course, you don't get a player for next year's team.
Your first point is a whole lot of jabbering, but the last point is true depending on how you look at it (how do you define "talent"? Is it an innate skill and a lot of people never find their's, is it something developed, or is it some of both? How can you quantify that anyway?). The bottom line is that the bust-rate on Europeans drafted isn't any higher than that of American-born players because a very small percentage in any draft come from overseas anyway. If over the course of 5 years there are 20 Europeans drafted and 4 come over and don't bust, that's as good as the rate that American's bust.
One other thing, how do you define what nationality is okay and what isn't? Is this a European thing or anything non-American? Because the latter is xenophobia whether you want to dismiss that or not. For the record, Turkey isn't in Europe, and neither is Congo.
I'm scared I'm going to end up being baited into some statistical waste-of-time. Oh well.
billyshelby
Well-Known Member
I am very unexcited about Kemba Walker. He ranks atop my list of guys I will struggle greatly to talk myself into at 3. Nearly every other candidate is more soft and cuddly to me.
At 12, I have an incredibly difficult time. Since I'm not in love with most of the so-called 'safe' picks -- Singleton, Thompson, Jimmer, Hamilton, etc. -- I'd probably be more excited if we traded down for a 'reach' guy like Selby, Donatas, Tyler. My personal preference might be a guy like Mirotic or Bertrans who gets stashed, but not at 12.
I'm pretty much at the point where if the 12 doesn't turn into Biyombo or JV, I don't want the guys who will be there.
At 12, I have an incredibly difficult time. Since I'm not in love with most of the so-called 'safe' picks -- Singleton, Thompson, Jimmer, Hamilton, etc. -- I'd probably be more excited if we traded down for a 'reach' guy like Selby, Donatas, Tyler. My personal preference might be a guy like Mirotic or Bertrans who gets stashed, but not at 12.
I'm pretty much at the point where if the 12 doesn't turn into Biyombo or JV, I don't want the guys who will be there.
I kind of imagine that the agent for Mirotic either wants to be picked top 10 or picked in the second round where you can actually be paid more than most first round picks. I would love to get an early second round pick if he is still on the board.
My list: The Jo Bro, Motiejunas.
Most of these picks I could be patient with at the right slot, I just don't like either of those players (I just don't like Jimmer's game or the absurd crap that surrounds it, and I think Motiejunas will crumble). Kemba at 3 is a nightmare I've been forced to consider.
Most of these picks I could be patient with at the right slot, I just don't like either of those players (I just don't like Jimmer's game or the absurd crap that surrounds it, and I think Motiejunas will crumble). Kemba at 3 is a nightmare I've been forced to consider.