No I haven't seen Jonas play. That is why I rely on DX, who has much more experience than either you or I at ever will, to do that for me.
2011 draft.....
- Thread starter Duck Rodgers
- Start date
BENTLEY
Well-Known Member
There's something to be said for those who have seen these guys play. There are a few on here (underKanter and Sepanol) that rave about Kanter. I haven't heard much negative stuff about him from people who have seen him play. Only from people who haven't.
I think people attach their egos to prospects. I think this might be why people can use one argument against a prospect that doesn't seem to apply to the one they're touting. We just gotta remain open. I've argued against Knight - and my reasons, as far as I'm aware, are sound. But I could very well be wrong. Knight COULD become greater than Michael Jordan. I mean, anything's possible. I'm just going off what I've seen thus far, and based on that I wouldn't bet the 3rd pick on him. But I'm perfectly fine being wrong about him. I just need to see it first.
Those who don't like Kanter - that's fine. And those touting Kanter could very well be his family or something. But somehow I don't think so. I think Sepanol and UK have watched him enough to become pretty enamored of him. UK is more in love than Sepanol I think. Sepanol I think sees him pretty objectively - but he still seems to like him. I think.
Sepanol, who would you take with the 3rd pick and why? Who would you take with the 1st pick?
I think people attach their egos to prospects. I think this might be why people can use one argument against a prospect that doesn't seem to apply to the one they're touting. We just gotta remain open. I've argued against Knight - and my reasons, as far as I'm aware, are sound. But I could very well be wrong. Knight COULD become greater than Michael Jordan. I mean, anything's possible. I'm just going off what I've seen thus far, and based on that I wouldn't bet the 3rd pick on him. But I'm perfectly fine being wrong about him. I just need to see it first.
Those who don't like Kanter - that's fine. And those touting Kanter could very well be his family or something. But somehow I don't think so. I think Sepanol and UK have watched him enough to become pretty enamored of him. UK is more in love than Sepanol I think. Sepanol I think sees him pretty objectively - but he still seems to like him. I think.
Sepanol, who would you take with the 3rd pick and why? Who would you take with the 1st pick?
I ask myself a similar question (the only difference being he's slipped two spots in the last couple of months) almost every day.
Well maybe I haven't seen enough of him. Everything I have seen so far and have read makes him out to be a pretty good defensive player/prospect. I think the reason he may be falling in drafts is because of the contractual concerns. Chad Ford mentioned something about the details being really murky and how EURO teams don't make that information easily accessible.
A 28-year-old, 8-year veteran is going to be our PG of the FUTURE? Realistically, what kind of rebuilding curve is this team on? Realistically, what will Harris improve at?
I'll answer, if this team is to contend, we're at least 3 years away. Realistically. That makes your 'PG of the future' 31, whose game is built on speed (which is the first thing to go) and is an underwhelming shooter. Harris might be good for someone else, but here, it's just a waste of money and other resources (minutes and a slot to develop others, plus whatever you get for him in a trade).
Reading this exert from the Jonas write up on DX, it talks about how him and Kanter have been rivals in Euro games. It sounds like Kanter had the upper hand early in their career, Im assuming because Jonas was much weaker when he was 16, but towards the end of their rivalry Jonas got the upper hand.
"All Valanciunas has done since is continue to improve steadily every time we've seen him. There he was in the U-18 European Championships in Metz in the summer of 2009, going up against arch-rival Enes Kanter in a pair of epic matchups that frequently get mentioned by NBA scouts as pivotal moments in their evaluations. 19.3 points, 10.6 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, on 72% FG and 79% FT were the final tallies in France."
Sounds like Kanter is great defender letting some guy with little offensive game pwn him like that.
"All Valanciunas has done since is continue to improve steadily every time we've seen him. There he was in the U-18 European Championships in Metz in the summer of 2009, going up against arch-rival Enes Kanter in a pair of epic matchups that frequently get mentioned by NBA scouts as pivotal moments in their evaluations. 19.3 points, 10.6 rebounds, 2.6 blocks, on 72% FG and 79% FT were the final tallies in France."
Sounds like Kanter is great defender letting some guy with little offensive game pwn him like that.
From Givony at DX on the Jazz's pick: "This is where the draft really starts seemingly, as soon as the consensus top two picks are off the board. The discrepancy between the prospects perceived to be the 3rd and 10th best talents is about as small as we can remember in our eight years covering the draft ..." Chad Ford's podcast also mentioned that after #2, the draft looks like a whole raft of role players. If true (and I have no idea if these statements are), I wonder if this makes any sense:
Go for defense. Just accept the fact that this draft isn't going to improve our offense (at least for three years). Instead, try to improve the make-up of the team in terms of defense, intensity, length, potential, and quality people.
To me there's four guys that may not be great offensive players, but could really help here (Knight, Biyombo, Leonard, Singleton). Say you could turn next year's GS pick and something else modest into Biyombo, you draft Knight with 3, and get the SF defender (likely Singleton) at 12. Would you do it?
Here's my rationale: I think we overrate the GS pick. I think there's less than 50% chance it gives us a lottery pick (GS could make playoffs, or be so bad that the protection kicks in), and even if it does get in the lottery, it will be in the no-man's land of the lottery bottom. We'll probably be bad next year, so our own pick should be good, and next year might be a better year for going after an offensive player. And finally, good defensive teams almost always make the playoffs. Of the top 5 defensive teams over the past 9 years (Hollinger defensive efficiency), only 2 of those 45 teams did not make the playoffs (this year's Bucks and 02-03 Nuggets, which was a 17-win team -- truly bad offense). Would you feel confident enough that given a few years Biyombo, Favors, Singleton, Hayward, and Knight could be the basis of a top-five defensive team? With enough offense?
Go for defense. Just accept the fact that this draft isn't going to improve our offense (at least for three years). Instead, try to improve the make-up of the team in terms of defense, intensity, length, potential, and quality people.
To me there's four guys that may not be great offensive players, but could really help here (Knight, Biyombo, Leonard, Singleton). Say you could turn next year's GS pick and something else modest into Biyombo, you draft Knight with 3, and get the SF defender (likely Singleton) at 12. Would you do it?
Here's my rationale: I think we overrate the GS pick. I think there's less than 50% chance it gives us a lottery pick (GS could make playoffs, or be so bad that the protection kicks in), and even if it does get in the lottery, it will be in the no-man's land of the lottery bottom. We'll probably be bad next year, so our own pick should be good, and next year might be a better year for going after an offensive player. And finally, good defensive teams almost always make the playoffs. Of the top 5 defensive teams over the past 9 years (Hollinger defensive efficiency), only 2 of those 45 teams did not make the playoffs (this year's Bucks and 02-03 Nuggets, which was a 17-win team -- truly bad offense). Would you feel confident enough that given a few years Biyombo, Favors, Singleton, Hayward, and Knight could be the basis of a top-five defensive team? With enough offense?
I would probably trade the GS state pick for Biyombo. I think him or Jonas is key to developing a solid defensive team and there aren't really any defensive big men in next years draft besides Henson. With Biyombo or Jonas there is going to be a learning curve (mainly how not to foul) so I doubt we will be a great defensive team or even contend to make the playoffs with how deep the West is.
The real prizes in the 2012 draft are going to be in the top 8 too. I dont know if we will be that bad though.
But I think we should be worse than every team in the West besides The Timberwolves and Suns.
But if we can get either of them at 12 there is no reason to trade to get him.