Coach Ellis
Well-Known Member
Neither Cooper or Petrovic should be starting in this thing.
2021 All-Time NBA Draft Finals: Thee Idiotic Minivan K vs Wes Mantooth
- Thread starter Elizah Huge
- Start date
Thee’s starting lineup has a major weakness at PF against all-timers, but this matchup is perfect for him. Overall firepower of the starting lineup is an advantage to Thee, though the bench feels like a bunch of guys thrown together.
On the other hand. Wes has elite passing and defense across his starters which are key attributes in these contests, whereas Magic is gonna be the entire engine for Thee. Cooper is a reach as a starter since he didn’t even do that in the normal NBA. I think I like Wes’s bench better.
Shooting/spacing is a bit of a wash starters v starters (Thee with the most potent shooters, Wes with one more believable spacer than Thee... I think, IIRC Pippen was a decent shooter by that year). Hard to say that a starting lineup featuring Klay and Ray isn’t ultimately superior.
It’s hard to compare Bill Russell to a modern NBA player. His defensive impact is undoubtedly the greatest the league has ever seen or will ever see, but that is largely a product of spacing being so poor. He was a terrible FT shooter, too. I’m not sure that if the tables were turned, Gobert wouldn’t be as absolutely dominant in the same way. That all being said, what we know is that Bill Russell won a gaudy amount of rings with very little besides defense/rebounding, so he gets the edge.
My gut says Wes, but when I break it down I am not sure.
On the other hand. Wes has elite passing and defense across his starters which are key attributes in these contests, whereas Magic is gonna be the entire engine for Thee. Cooper is a reach as a starter since he didn’t even do that in the normal NBA. I think I like Wes’s bench better.
Shooting/spacing is a bit of a wash starters v starters (Thee with the most potent shooters, Wes with one more believable spacer than Thee... I think, IIRC Pippen was a decent shooter by that year). Hard to say that a starting lineup featuring Klay and Ray isn’t ultimately superior.
It’s hard to compare Bill Russell to a modern NBA player. His defensive impact is undoubtedly the greatest the league has ever seen or will ever see, but that is largely a product of spacing being so poor. He was a terrible FT shooter, too. I’m not sure that if the tables were turned, Gobert wouldn’t be as absolutely dominant in the same way. That all being said, what we know is that Bill Russell won a gaudy amount of rings with very little besides defense/rebounding, so he gets the edge.
My gut says Wes, but when I break it down I am not sure.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Wes could go big with Pippen, LeBron and Wallace with Russell and Stockton. Or he could go small with Frazier and Stockton in the backcourt.
Regardless, Stockton, Pippen, LeBron and Russell is as good as I have ever seen assembled in one of these. That foursome literally has everything on both sides of the court.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Reaching? It happened it’s nba history?
I understand that instinct. I think if we’re being a little realistic, it’s useful to have lineups with low usage specialists since so many players would be so accustomed to using possessions. It does feel like a reach with Cooper, though.
Petrovic is a tough one. He was absolutely a great player in the league, just for a relatively (very) short time. It’s too bad the car accident happened. Reggie Miller says that Petrovic was the best shooter he ever played against and the numbers bear that out (also keep in mind that this was during the era of the lengthened 3-pt line which got shortened in ‘93-‘94).
Thee has repeatedly said he thinks Stockton was better than Magic and now when it comes down to it he’s back pedaling for votes lmao.
Wes has the better team anyways.
Wes has the better team anyways.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
I’ve always stated Magic was the better overall player, but as a pure pg Stockton played the position better you idiot!!
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
the three point line being shortened…
Dang, I forgot about that. I love Petrovic definitely among the elite of elite shooters and was on the road to the HOF IMO
Dang, I forgot about that. I love Petrovic definitely among the elite of elite shooters and was on the road to the HOF IMO
This all hinges on whether Magic can be meaningfully slowed down or not because if he’s cooking, the firepower of the starting lineup (and shot quality; shots at the rim and 3s) will get the job done.
On the other hand, Wes has a team built to shut him down and Thee has little to counter that without lineup changes. There just is hardly any creation besides Magic in the main lineup. Notwithstanding, Magic was rarely “shutdown”, but slowed down might be good enough.
For that reason I’m going Wes in 7 games.
On the other hand, Wes has a team built to shut him down and Thee has little to counter that without lineup changes. There just is hardly any creation besides Magic in the main lineup. Notwithstanding, Magic was rarely “shutdown”, but slowed down might be good enough.
For that reason I’m going Wes in 7 games.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
I just can't get past all 4 of these unselfish, dynamic guys on the same team. It really is so perfect: Stockton, Pippen, LeBron and Bill Russell. You really couldn't ask for better chemistry than those 4 would provide. All of those guys are winners who have been part of something bigger than themselves.
You could replace Stockton with Magic, but wouldn't that take the ball out of LeBron's hands too much?
Sure Cooper/Frazier/Petrovic could be improved upon, but really, all the 5th guy has to do is hit wide open looks and play good defense.
Pippen is the ultimate complimentary player.
Russell knew how to do whatever it took to win. Maybe you argue Wilt could be better, that's about it.
You could replace Stockton with Magic, but wouldn't that take the ball out of LeBron's hands too much?
Sure Cooper/Frazier/Petrovic could be improved upon, but really, all the 5th guy has to do is hit wide open looks and play good defense.
Pippen is the ultimate complimentary player.
Russell knew how to do whatever it took to win. Maybe you argue Wilt could be better, that's about it.
The reason this is even a debate is Wes’s lack of shooting.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
True.
I think Cooper, Petrovic and Frazier will cover fine enough. Pippen, Stockton and LeBron are good enough shooters that all they needed was one more adequate guy out there. That team could throw Bruce Bowen in the corner and be fine.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Bump
Keefe
Well-Known Member
I
Cooper shot 37.0% on 2.5 attempts the year I chose for him. Lebron like 41%. Pippen like 37%. And Stockton was always super high efficiency. My guys take smart shots and can hit them. Cover too closely and all four of those guys can get right by you and finish or pass to someone else. A well-oiled machine.
Cooper shot 37.0% on 2.5 attempts the year I chose for him. Lebron like 41%. Pippen like 37%. And Stockton was always super high efficiency. My guys take smart shots and can hit them. Cover too closely and all four of those guys can get right by you and finish or pass to someone else. A well-oiled machine.
You have the best team and you won. I voted for you. Relax.
Keefe
Well-Known Member
I’m just responding to your comment is all.
JoelHodgeJr
Well-Known Member
Congrats to @Wes Mantooth ! Great team @Thee Idiotic Minivan K . Well done too both of you.