2025 Playoffs Chat & Chill Thread

[fishonjazz]

KAT is such a low IQ defender. Dude cannot avoid dumb fouls and leaves guys open in the paint all the time when he is supposed to play C and overextends to help on the perimeter.

Thibs had enough of that in game 2. Dude played Mitchell Robinson more minutes in the 2nd half than his 2nd best scorer without foul trouble affecting that decission.

Ya it's a tough one. What you say about kat is true.
Then I watch Robinson over help time and time again and leave open 3 point shooters and then be a liability on offense. I saw one play near the end of the game where Robinson drove towards the hoop (never a good idea for him) and airballed a dunk attempt lol.

I understand why thibs did that but with hindsight I think he should have went with kat

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[HermanG]

Ya it's a tough one. What you say about kat is true.
Then I watch Robinson over help time and time again and leave open 3 point shooters and then be a liability on offense. I saw one play near the end of the game where Robinson drove towards the hoop (never a good idea for him) and airballed a dunk attempt lol.

I understand why thibs did that but with hindsight I think he should have went with kat

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Yeah Robinson has plenty of deficiencies as well with his game including enabling "hack a Mitch".... which tells a lot about how Thibs felt about KAT in that game.

What is incredible is that Knicks starting lineup (Brunson, Hart, OG, Mikal, KAT) has a net rating of -9.5 in these playoffs despite being in the ECF... and they are a disgusting -42.9 in these two games vs Pacers.

Deuce and Mitch on the other hand have a net rating of 8.8 and 8.6 in these playoffs and 20.6 and 9.8 in the conference finals. Their 3rd best net rating guy in these ECF games is OG with -3.7 and in the playoffs overall its Brunson at +0.7. I think its not about those two being "so good"... its more about the fit of the team being so much better when either one of those two is in the game.

Only other bench guy to get any minutes is Cam Payne but he has been hot garbage and has similar negative ratings to the starters..

 

[The Midnight]

Yeah Robinson has plenty of deficiencies as well with his game including enabling "hack a Mitch".... which tells a lot about how Thibs felt about KAT in that game.

What is incredible is that Knicks starting lineup (Brunson, Hart, OG, Mikal, KAT) has a net rating of -9.5 in these playoffs despite being in the ECF... and they are a disgusting -42.9 in these two games vs Pacers.

Deuce and Mitch on the other hand have a net rating of 8.8 and 8.6 in these playoffs and 20.6 and 9.8 in the conference finals. Their 3rd best net rating guy in these ECF games is OG with -3.7 and in the playoffs overall its Brunson at +0.7. I think its not about those two being "so good"... its more about the fit of the team being so much better when either one of those two is in the game.

Only other bench guy to get any minutes is Cam Payne but he has been hot garbage and has similar negative ratings to the starters..

How is that different to Kessler?

He’s also very limited offensively. Are we still sold on being able to contend with him?

These days you really need 5 guys on the floor who can shoot imo.

#DraftMaluach

 

[HermanG]

How is that different to Kessler?

He’s also very limited offensively. Are we still sold on being able to contend with him?

These days you really need 5 guys on the floor who can shoot imo.

#DraftMaluach

Well none of the teams left are constructed like that.

OKC has Hartenstein, MIN has Gobert, NYK has Robinson and all those 3 are main rotation guys averaging over 23 minutes. Even Indy has played multiple guys on their rotation that cant really shoot (Bryant and Bradley... and to lesser extent McConnell who no one guards on the perimeter).

Also NYK is VASTLY better when Robinson is on the court vs when he is off... so their "5 shooter" starting lineup is actually worse than their lineups with a non-shooting center.

 

[The Midnight]

Well none of the teams left are constructed like that.

OKC has Hartenstein, MIN has Gobert, NYK has Robinson and all those 3 are main rotation guys averaging over 23 minutes. Even Indy has played multiple guys on their rotation that cant really shoot (Bryant and Bradley... and to lesser extent McConnell who no one guards on the perimeter).

Also NYK is VASTLY better when Robinson is on the court vs when he is off... so their "5 shooter" starting lineup is actually worse than their lineups with a non-shooting center.

OKC has Chet who can play the 5 full time if needs be and he shoots the 3 lights out.

MIN has Gobert but they’re about to get swept.

NY could also get swept with Robinson.

IND has Myles at the 5 who’s been brilliant offensively.

It’s looking like IND vs OKC Finals with Chet and Myles both offensive centers.

#DraftMaluach

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Sure. That was not the situation the Jazz were in when they blew it up, just so we’re all very clear.

-The Pacers weren’t passively-aggressively at each others’ throats
-The Pacers weren’t old
-The Pacers had superfluous assets, not down a pick whose protections made it prohibitively difficult to trade anything until 2028 (basically we only had one first and swaps to trade)
-Halliburton is better than anyone we had (fight me)
-The Pacers are not in the Western Conference

Also I think you missed the biggest thing, Rick Carlisle vs Snyder. Not trying to dump on Quin, because I think he was great in Utah, but Carlisle has a proven track record of being able to adapt better.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Also I think you missed the biggest thing, Rick Carlisle vs Snyder. Not trying to dump on Quin, because I think he was great in Utah, but Carlisle has a proven track record of being able to adapt better.

I definitely thought about that, but firing Quin was low-hanging fruit while those other things really had us boxed in structurally. They basically would’ve had to make the Royce trade, fire Quin, then nail every single move after that in rapid succession to keep that build viable (as a reminder, the Jazz didn’t have a pick in ‘22 to lean on in retooling).

I’m just gonna pivot here to the present: I’m good working in earnest at patient improvement after one more tank year since the Jazz would be foolish to NOT tank given where they are and the OKC pick protection design. If we don’t get lucky next draft, oh well.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I looked at The Ringer top 100 Player Rankings, updated 4/15/25.

Haliburton was #19, Siakim #39, Turner #87

If they win the Finals, they will be the team with the least perceived talent (both high end and top 100 depth) to ever win IMO.

 

[fishonjazz]

Well none of the teams left are constructed like that.

OKC has Hartenstein, MIN has Gobert, NYK has Robinson and all those 3 are main rotation guys averaging over 23 minutes. Even Indy has played multiple guys on their rotation that cant really shoot (Bryant and Bradley... and to lesser extent McConnell who no one guards on the perimeter).

Also NYK is VASTLY better when Robinson is on the court vs when he is off... so their "5 shooter" starting lineup is actually worse than their lineups with a non-shooting center.

Though Hartenstein cant shoot, he isn't a liability on offense. He is amazing with his floater. I think he is different than players like gobert and robinson fwiw.

 

[zags422]

Knicks play too much ISO and while Brunson is so so good in the paint and in traffic, he rarely seems to throw the opposing defense into chaos or have that extra gear to push tempo. The Pacers move so much better on offense then the knicks do as well. Coaching component IMO to the differences as well. Love the pacers constant screen game on offense and pressure on defense. Even with their smaller size they just wear teams down. Good model to follow

 

[The Midnight]

I looked at The Ringer top 100 Player Rankings, updated 4/15/25.

Haliburton was #19, Siakim #39, Turner #87

If they win the Finals, they will be the team with the least perceived talent (both high end and top 100 depth) to ever win IMO.

LOL

Turner at #87 is ridiculously low.

 

[fishonjazz]

Haliburton and Mitchell are on the same level.

To piggyback off this a little bit, the all nba 1st, 2nd and 3rd teams were recently announced.
Mitchell on the 1st team and haliburton on the 3rd team fwiw.

I think they are on the same level as well and if anyone is above the other then I think Mitchell would be on top. I know that take is probably an unpopular one on a jazz fanz site (for a reason I dont really understand jazz fans seem to dislike donovan) and the timing is poor as haliburton looks to be headed to the finals.