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Air Conditioning

I don't get it, Log. Are you in an interior apartment without windows? Window units are cheap and will chill the hell out of a house. I have one in my house currently because my AC is being a dickbutt and the coils refuse allmy cleaning methods. I still get 60's if I want it.

Well first of all, the rant was centered on our apartment because it came after our party here where it was sweltering and my shirt literally looked like I had dipped it in water from sweat. But really it was aimed at the general topic that AC here is non-existant. Of course everyone has it in their car, but you rarely find it in any buildings. Dutch has it right, most Europeans are acclimated for cold weather, so you see them greatly over-react to stay warm when there is a hint of cold in the air. For example, we are supposed to get some rain in the next few days, and I guarandamntee that we will see people running around in cost with scarves and hats while the rain brings the temp down to the high to mid 70's. I just cannot fathom that at all. Dutch is right about buses and such too. They become hot-boxes. Last summer while I was here in July they had a big kerfuffle in Berlin during a 2-day heat wave where dozens of people had to be taken to the hospital due to heatstroke riding a tram. But then the next day it started to rain, the temp dropped 10 degrees maybe, and everyone was in coats and scarves again. It is the single most bizarre difference I can think of.

As for our air conditioner, in some ways Dutch is right about that too. The reason most Europeans don't have AV is due to 1) what I said above and 2) there really are only a few weeks a year when it is really needed. We were hoping our apartment would get us some reprieve in that we are on the bottom level in a WWII era building (meaning thick concrete walls) and the back side of our apartment is shielded from the sun. So we hoped it would at least stay somewhat cooler. Which it does compared to the other apartments, but that means that our apartment nearly reaches outside ambient temps inside, and the other apartments are 10-20 degrees hotter. The folks living in the top apartment came down to us yesterday and spent half the day at our place since their apartment was so much warmer. Plus they have 2 little kids (5 and 3) and we have a little garden area where we set up a little kiddie pool and the kids, including my 13 year old, "swam", and later the adults too. It was so. Damn. Hot.

Anyway, we are going to look into something. The layout and design of German floorplans make it hard to get one unit to do much to the whole house, so we will need to use a combo of a window unit and fans to move air around. Every room here has a door that closes. You can stand in the hallway and have zero clue where anything is with all the doors closed. It is weird. Plus the windows here are not like most windows in the US. They are build for ventilation since most houses have no forced air system (we have floor heating, but most places uses hot water radiator heating units under the windows), so the windows frames are extra thick and are designed to tip inward for ventilation, or open completely swinging inward like a door. And they are not easy to remove or anything, so to have a unit in the window means having a window swung inward open. It also means they don't have many such units available here and they are expensive. We will also have to build it in somehow since the windows are all about 4 feet tall, but that is doable for the summer at least. But being a ground floor apartment it also means a weak spot and there have been some break-ins in the area. I don't know we are still debating what to do. We are hoping our friends are right when they say that it gets hot for 3-5 days, then rains and is cool for a week, then gets hot again, etc.

This is what the windows are like:

520832674_005.jpg
 
So we talked to some friends who have a mobile air conditioner. Here are some from Obi, a sort of German Home Depot.

https://www.obi.de/decom/search/klimaanlage?isi=true

The problem they said was they pull a ton of power to run, and they are inefficient for cooling unless you want the one that is 1000 euros+. Still might get one.
 
Well first of all, the rant was centered on our apartment because it came after our party here where it was sweltering and my shirt literally looked like I had dipped it in water from sweat. But really it was aimed at the general topic that AC here is non-existant. Of course everyone has it in their car, but you rarely find it in any buildings. Dutch has it right, most Europeans are acclimated for cold weather, so you see them greatly over-react to stay warm when there is a hint of cold in the air. For example, we are supposed to get some rain in the next few days, and I guarandamntee that we will see people running around in cost with scarves and hats while the rain brings the temp down to the high to mid 70's. I just cannot fathom that at all. Dutch is right about buses and such too. They become hot-boxes. Last summer while I was here in July they had a big kerfuffle in Berlin during a 2-day heat wave where dozens of people had to be taken to the hospital due to heatstroke riding a tram. But then the next day it started to rain, the temp dropped 10 degrees maybe, and everyone was in coats and scarves again. It is the single most bizarre difference I can think of.

As for our air conditioner, in some ways Dutch is right about that too. The reason most Europeans don't have AV is due to 1) what I said above and 2) there really are only a few weeks a year when it is really needed. We were hoping our apartment would get us some reprieve in that we are on the bottom level in a WWII era building (meaning thick concrete walls) and the back side of our apartment is shielded from the sun. So we hoped it would at least stay somewhat cooler. Which it does compared to the other apartments, but that means that our apartment nearly reaches outside ambient temps inside, and the other apartments are 10-20 degrees hotter. The folks living in the top apartment came down to us yesterday and spent half the day at our place since their apartment was so much warmer. Plus they have 2 little kids (5 and 3) and we have a little garden area where we set up a little kiddie pool and the kids, including my 13 year old, "swam", and later the adults too. It was so. Damn. Hot.

Anyway, we are going to look into something. The layout and design of German floorplans make it hard to get one unit to do much to the whole house, so we will need to use a combo of a window unit and fans to move air around. Every room here has a door that closes. You can stand in the hallway and have zero clue where anything is with all the doors closed. It is weird. Plus the windows here are not like most windows in the US. They are build for ventilation since most houses have no forced air system (we have floor heating, but most places uses hot water radiator heating units under the windows), so the windows frames are extra thick and are designed to tip inward for ventilation, or open completely swinging inward like a door. And they are not easy to remove or anything, so to have a unit in the window means having a window swung inward open. It also means they don't have many such units available here and they are expensive. We will also have to build it in somehow since the windows are all about 4 feet tall, but that is doable for the summer at least. But being a ground floor apartment it also means a weak spot and there have been some break-ins in the area. I don't know we are still debating what to do. We are hoping our friends are right when they say that it gets hot for 3-5 days, then rains and is cool for a week, then gets hot again, etc.

This is what the windows are like:

520832674_005.jpg


I never realized most of Europe was such high latitude. I always thought they were roughly even with Murica. Why would anyone in there right mind want to live there anywhere outside Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey. We can't even get people to live in Wyoming or South Dakota.


So we talked to some friends who have a mobile air conditioner. Here are some from Obi, a sort of German Home Depot.

https://www.obi.de/decom/search/klimaanlage?isi=true

The problem they said was they pull a ton of power to run, and they are inefficient for cooling unless you want the one that is 1000 euros+. Still might get one.

First off, why are you sweating $1000 (pun intended)? I would go insane living without A/C. Buy a damn unit.

Second, how do those portables deal with the heat generated/absorbed? I'm skeptical that would do any good whatsoever if you cannot radiate the heat outside.

Third, it's a triple function unit. They don't sell one without a heater and dehumidifier to save you money?

Fourth, judging by the add Germans actually care about and are willing to pay for quality. How nice would it be to find anything of quality here...
 
Are you afraid if you bought one you'd be looked upon as just another amerikanisch?

Just asking.
 
gotta try to find a link, but I just saw an article in the paper (didn't really read it though) about how buildings in the US really crank their AC to keep temps much lower and many people find it too cold
 
here it is "Enduring Summer's Deep Freeze"

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/05/sunday-review/enduring-summers-deep-freeze.html

IT’S summertime. The season when you can write your name in the condensation on the windows at Starbucks, people pull on parkas to go to the movies and judges have been known to pause proceedings so bailiffs can escort jurors outside the courthouse to warm up.

On these, the hottest days of the year, office workers huddle under fleece blankets in their cubicles. Cold complaints trend on Twitter with posts like, “I could preserve dead bodies in the office it’s so cold in here.” And fashion and style bloggers offer advice for layered looks for coming in and out of the cold.

Why is America so over air-conditioned? It seems absurd, if not unconscionable, when you consider the money and energy wasted — not to mention the negative impact on the environment from the associated greenhouse-gas emissions. Architects, engineers, building owners and energy experts sigh with exasperation when asked for an explanation. They tick off a number of reasons — probably the most vexing is cultural.

“Being able to make people feel cold in the summer is a sign of power and prestige,” said Richard de Dear, director of the Indoor Environmental Quality Laboratory at University of Sydney, Australia, where excessive air-conditioning is as prevalent as it is in much of the United States. He said the problem is even worse in parts of the Middle East and Asia.

Commercial real estate brokers and building managers say sophisticated tenants specify so-called chilling capacity in their lease agreements so they are guaranteed cold cachet. In retailing, luxury stores like Bergdorf Goodman, Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue are kept colder than more down-market Target, Walmart and Old Navy. Whole Foods is chillier than Kroger, which is chillier than Piggly Wiggly.

There’s also the widely held misconception that colder temperatures make workers more alert and productive when, in fact, research shows the opposite. Studies have shown people work less and make more mistakes when the air temperature is 68 to 72 degrees Fahrenheit versus 74 to 76 degrees. Moreover, some research indicates feeling cold can take a psychological toll, making people untrusting, uncommunicative and unfriendly.

it continues...

some of the reasons it presents are interesting
 
What the **** is wrong with some people that they feel cold at 70 Fahrenheit? 70! The problem isn't over-airconditioning, the problem is that some people are nuts. I don't think any of these cold stores or offices people are complaining about are chilled to 50.
 
Are you afraid if you bought one you'd be looked upon as just another amerikanisch?

Just asking.

No. I am kind of aligned with Dutch on this. It could be this is our only summer here. Yeah it sucks right now but it will be a chunk of the summer only and not sure it is worth dropping 1k for one summer. I am seriously thinking about it though.
 
here it is "Enduring Summer's Deep Freeze"

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/05/sunday-review/enduring-summers-deep-freeze.html



it continues...

some of the reasons it presents are interesting

Yeah my wife complained about this a lot too. She hated going to the movies because she would have to bring a sweater, in July or August. That is serious overkill. We normally kept our house at 74 year round. It tended to balance out. We then started going with 77 in the summer and 72 in the winter to reduce costs and found out it reduced costs a whopping 50 bucks a year to do that. So then it was F that and back to 74 year round. We also played with the whole programmed thing (you know, in the summer go with 78 at night stepping it slowly to 74 during the day then back, reversed for winter, that kind of thing) and we found that actually cost us money over just leaving at at 74 all the damn time. I would KILL for my apartment to get down to 74 tonight. Best I can hope for is probably 80.
 
I never realized most of Europe was such high latitude. I always thought they were roughly even with Murica. Why would anyone in there right mind want to live there anywhere outside Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey. We can't even get people to live in Wyoming or South Dakota.




First off, why are you sweating $1000 (pun intended)? I would go insane living without A/C. Buy a damn unit.

Second, how do those portables deal with the heat generated/absorbed? I'm skeptical that would do any good whatsoever if you cannot radiate the heat outside.

Third, it's a triple function unit. They don't sell one without a heater and dehumidifier to save you money?

Fourth, judging by the add Germans actually care about and are willing to pay for quality. How nice would it be to find anything of quality here...

Interesting tid bit. If not for the gulf stream,(hot water from the Gulf of Mexico travels north along our east coast and then makes a B line for Europe) Europe would be Canada cold.
 
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