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Am I racist?

Race is something totally created by society. The birth-giving scenarios you described have everything to do with genetics and biology and nothing to do with race.
The word race was created by society.

The color of someone's skin was not though.
I think that is what bline is arguing. We can use whatever word you want...... he is using the word race...... but characteristics, like skin color, are passed onto offspring
 
Anthropology and sociology are social sciences. Humans are different biologically. Biology is a hard science. There is absolutely not a single thing iny biology that would allow me to create an offspring with a white female that would be any other color than white, or the slight variation of white skin color.

Yes there is. Black people can have white children. Is an albino a child a part of the black race?

I can not create black offspring, no matter how much I disagree with the way society labeled me. It's just not in the cards, biologically speaking.

Define the black race.



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The word race was created by society.

The color of someone's skin was not though.
I think that is what bline is arguing. We can use whatever word you want...... he is using the word race...... but characteristics, like skin color, are passed onto offspring

There are people from Fiji who are more black than black people-- how come they're not considered black, if we are to assume that race is reflective of melanin content?

How come I'm not considered Hispanic, even though my skin colour is basically in the same range?


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So b-line is saying that race is passed on to offspring and from the posts of others it sounds like he is wrong.

I think it would be more true (although there would be very rare exceptions, such as abnormalities like albinos) that skin color is passed onto offspring
 
BLine, I'm a biology student. There is absolutely zero biological justification for race. Race superficially seems to be based on appearance, but do not be fooled-- it really, really isn't, and it can be proven that it isn't quite easily.


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There are people from Fiji who are more black than black people-- how come they're not considered black, if we are to assume that race is reflective of melanin content?

How come I'm not considered Hispanic, even though my skin colour is basically in the same range?


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I agree.
Race was the wrong word to use.
 
BLine, I'm a biology student. There is absolutely zero biological justification for race. Race superficially seems to be based on appearance, but do not be fooled-- it really, really isn't, and it can be proven that it isn't quite easily.


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I understand that people do not like the term race, but there are people out there who do not buy into the loaded terminology. I said earlier in the thread that the term scientists use now to describe the same concept is ethnicity. There are probably not very many in this world who would say that ethnicity is a social construct. Having an ethnicity and being part of a certain population is absolutely scientific.
 
I understand that people do not like the term race, but there are people out there who do not buy into the loaded terminology. I said earlier in the thread that the term scientists use now to describe the same concept is ethnicity. There are probably not very many in this world who would say that ethnicity is a social construct. Having an ethnicity and being part of a certain population is absolutely scientific.

Explain to me how ethnicity is scientific


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Explain to me how ethnicity is scientific


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the definition of ethnic that is scientific is the one that a group of people identifies with each other because of the common ancestry they share. There are other definitions, just like there are multiple definitions for lots of words.

If you can not see that groups of people descend from different ancestors and evolve differently into different populations, then you are blind. Either that or you are being dishonest with yourself.

If you want to keep arguing about semantics, then feel free. I am sick of it. Populations are differnt, and words like race, ethnicity, black, white, yellow, living, human, green, etc. are the words that humans have come up with to describe those differences.

The definition of a social construct is an invented thing that has no basis in the natural world. If you can really tell me that human biological differences have no basis in the natural world, then you are a lazy biology student. I think you are trying to be a social scientist on this front however, and it is beyond ridiculous that you are arguing that humans are not biologically diverse. At the very least you should understand biological diversity.
 
the definition of ethnic that is scientific is the one that a group of people identifies with each other because of the common ancestry they share. There are other definitions, just like there are multiple definitions for lots of words.

When this definition is used, ancestry (that you're referring to here) is not explicitly a biological term in any sense whatsoever. It refers to the generations of culture being built on the foundation of a geographic group of people who have segregated themselves from other groups, and built their own identity. Their identity stems from many justifications-- one of them can be skin colour, which is rooted in the genetic code for a human-- however, as w've mentioned, two people having the same skin pigment does not make them the same race. Please understand this. This is definite proof on how race is social.

If you can not see that groups of people descend from different ancestors and evolve differently into different populations, then you are blind. Either that or you are being dishonest with yourself.

Groups of people are not evolving. Please re-consider what your definition of evolution is. If people were evolving into different populations, then the different populations would not be able to mate with each other.

Certain genes are naturally selected based on the appropriateness on given generations of people living with a particular geographic setting. Hence, people living in sub-Saharan Africa tend to have a higher concentration of melanocytes within their skin. If this is your pure justification of the evolving of humans into separate population groups, then every single scientist and/or social scientist would cry laughing.

If you want to keep arguing about semantics, then feel free. I am sick of it. Populations are differnt, and words like race, ethnicity, black, white, yellow, living, human, green, etc. are the words that humans have come up with to describe those differences.

Yes, populations are different. The words generated to describe these differences are not based on biological differences-- they're based on social constructions of what defines two 'races' as different. Why are people from Fiji not considered black? You continue to ignore this question.

The definition of a social construct is an invented thing that has no basis in the natural world. If you can really tell me that human biological differences have no basis in the natural world, then you are a lazy biology student.

They claim to have a basis in the natural world-- however, you have yet to point to me what these natural, biological justifications are. We've gone over how skin-colour is an ineffective means to determine race. What else do you have to your disposal?

I think you are trying to be a social scientist on this front however, and it is beyond ridiculous that you are arguing that humans are not biologically diverse. At the very least you should understand biological diversity.

I do understand biological diversity. I am quite experienced, and knowledged particularly when it comes to the human genome.

Here's a question of you: do you think, after computing statistical/regressional analyses, that there is a significant difference in the genome between people within 'the same race', and dudes from from Finland vs. dudes from Senegal?

Understand that a genome has >20000 genes (there are more that we don't yet know about). Understand that for every gene that determines a superficial visible human characteristic, there are 1000 that determine things within the body. Understand that two Africans could have COMPLETELY different genetic profiles within their physiology, yet be considered more similar in society than a Swede and a Spaniard with identical internal genetic profiles, but different on account of 6-20 genes in terms of eye colour, skin colour, and hair colour.

This is where your lack of genetics knowledge is showing. This is why race is not biological: it uses less than 1% of genes to separate populations in the name of 'science', while disregarding the majority of the human genome. This is why every single social and biological scientist agrees that race is social, and not biological.
 
To get you dick heads back on topic here is what happened last night.

I start feeling a tinge of guilt because you guys called me a racist. So I call the mexican guy back and tell him he can come get the washer and dryer at 6. He tells me, in somewhat broken english but not too bad, that he has to drive down from Ogden, I live in Utah County, so he'll be there around 7.

I say " The ad says $400 and I've had a lot of interest so I will only take $400."

"Ok, that fine. Do you take check?"

"No, cash only."

"Ok, I bring cash."

So he shows up with some other guy, which is great because I don't want to move that **** down the stairs. I show him the items, he looks them over and nods that they are good. Then him and his buddy start trying to take them.

I go, "Hey hey hey, do you have the cash before you take these?"

"Oh yes, here you go."

Hands me a HUGE wad of 20's, 10's, 5's and 1's ..... I immediately think " you mother ****er, I know this game." He's hoping I wont count it.

"Hold on man, let me see how much this is." I start unfolding, unwrapping, untangling and the grand total comes to .............. $287!

"This is only $287 we agreed on $400, right?"

"400? You say $300 on the phone."

"Nope, I didn't. I was very careful and specific, I said $400 and the ad says $400. Even if we agreed on $300 this is still not $300."

Then his English starts to fade. Spanish Spanish Spanish .. English word, Spanish Spanish Spanish English word.

"Listen guy, I had a lot of offers on this and since you were the first I thought I'd be decent and let you have it. I told you $400 and we agreed. I'm not letting you take it for less than $400."

Then his English comes back. Weird huh? "I drive all the way from Ogden. That 1 hour away!"

"I do not give a ****. Not my problem. Pay me the right amount or please leave."

"I go see if I have more at ATM."

Then he leaves and doesn't come back.

So yeah, next time I'm saying first person with the cash at my door gets the item. Still annoying as hell, I knew it would happen, and it did.
 
To get you dick heads back on topic here is what happened last night.

I start feeling a tinge of guilt because you guys called me a racist. So I call the mexican guy back and tell him he can come get the washer and dryer at 6. He tells me, in somewhat broken english but not too bad, that he has to drive down from Ogden, I live in Utah County, so he'll be there around 7.

I say " The ad says $400 and I've had a lot of interest so I will only take $400."

"Ok, that fine. Do you take check?"

"No, cash only."

"Ok, I bring cash."

So he shows up with some other guy, which is great because I don't want to move that **** down the stairs. I show him the items, he looks them over and nods that they are good. Then him and his buddy start trying to take them.

I go, "Hey hey hey, do you have the cash before you take these?"

"Oh yes, here you go."

Hands me a HUGE wad of 20's, 10's, 5's and 1's ..... I immediately think " you mother ****er, I know this game." He's hoping I wont count it.

"Hold on man, let me see how much this is." I start unfolding, unwrapping, untangling and the grand total comes to .............. $287!

"This is only $287 we agreed on $400, right?"

"400? You say $300 on the phone."

"Nope, I didn't. I was very careful and specific, I said $400 and the ad says $400. Even if we agreed on $300 this is still not $300."

Then his English starts to fade. Spanish Spanish Spanish .. English word, Spanish Spanish Spanish English word.

"Listen guy, I had a lot of offers on this and since you were the first I thought I'd be decent and let you have it. I told you $400 and we agreed. I'm not letting you take it for less than $400."

Then his English comes back. Weird huh? "I drive all the way from Ogden. That 1 hour away!"

"I do not give a ****. Not my problem. Pay me the right amount or please leave."

"I go see if I have more at ATM."

Then he leaves and doesn't come back.

So yeah, next time I'm saying first person with the cash at my door gets the item. Still annoying as hell, I knew it would happen, and it did.

I would have straight-up told him that he's giving Hispanic-Americans a bad-name, by fulfilling the stereotype that you mentioned. I would have told him that you considered selling this item to a white customer, out of fear that you would have to deal with this. I'd tell him that every time he does something like this, he's adding fuel to an already unfair-fire.
 
I would have straight-up told him that he's giving Hispanic-Americans a bad-name, by fulfilling the stereotype that you mentioned. I would have told him that you considered selling this item to a white customer, out of fear that you would have to deal with this. I'd tell him that every time he does something like this, he's adding fuel to an already unfair-fire.

Like he gives a **** about giving anyone a bad name. Just wants something for cheaper than its worth.

FYI, found out I should have listed them for $600 .... $400 was a steal.
 
Like he gives a **** about giving anyone a bad name. Just wants something for cheaper than its worth.

FYI, found out I should have listed them for $600 .... $400 was a steal.

I would have told him anyways. Some food for thought for him. I'm sure he's felt discriminated before, so I imagine a comment like this would hit home.
 
Who said black had to be a race? Why limit it to that? There are plenty of black people who are very different from each other, but very similar to the rest of their own population.

Fun fact, there is more genetic diversity in people who originate from Africa than in the rest of the world combined. Meaning, Asians, Europeans, Native Americans, etc. are all more similar than Africans are to one another.
 
I would have straight-up told him that he's giving Hispanic-Americans a bad-name, by fulfilling the stereotype that you mentioned. I would have told him that you considered selling this item to a white customer, out of fear that you would have to deal with this. I'd tell him that every time he does something like this, he's adding fuel to an already unfair-fire.
He might have proceeded to kick your *** or maybe come back and vandalize/ break things on your property too
 
I would have straight-up told him that he's giving Hispanic-Americans a bad-name, by fulfilling the stereotype that you mentioned. I would have told him that you considered selling this item to a white customer, out of fear that you would have to deal with this. I'd tell him that every time he does something like this, he's adding fuel to an already unfair-fire.
lol. That seems kinda racist...
 
When this definition is used, ancestry (that you're referring to here) is not explicitly a biological term in any sense whatsoever. It refers to the generations of culture being built on the foundation of a geographic group of people who have segregated themselves from other groups, and built their own identity. Their identity stems from many justifications-- one of them can be skin colour, which is rooted in the genetic code for a human-- however, as w've mentioned, two people having the same skin pigment does not make them the same race. Please understand this. This is definite proof on how race is social.



Groups of people are not evolving. Please re-consider what your definition of evolution is. If people were evolving into different populations, then the different populations would not be able to mate with each other.

Certain genes are naturally selected based on the appropriateness on given generations of people living with a particular geographic setting. Hence, people living in sub-Saharan Africa tend to have a higher concentration of melanocytes within their skin. If this is your pure justification of the evolving of humans into separate population groups, then every single scientist and/or social scientist would cry laughing.



Yes, populations are different. The words generated to describe these differences are not based on biological differences-- they're based on social constructions of what defines two 'races' as different. Why are people from Fiji not considered black? You continue to ignore this question.



They claim to have a basis in the natural world-- however, you have yet to point to me what these natural, biological justifications are. We've gone over how skin-colour is an ineffective means to determine race. What else do you have to your disposal?



I do understand biological diversity. I am quite experienced, and knowledged particularly when it comes to the human genome.

Here's a question of you: do you think, after computing statistical/regressional analyses, that there is a significant difference in the genome between people within 'the same race', and dudes from from Finland vs. dudes from Senegal?

Understand that a genome has >20000 genes (there are more that we don't yet know about). Understand that for every gene that determines a superficial visible human characteristic, there are 1000 that determine things within the body. Understand that two Africans could have COMPLETELY different genetic profiles within their physiology, yet be considered more similar in society than a Swede and a Spaniard with identical internal genetic profiles, but different on account of 6-20 genes in terms of eye colour, skin colour, and hair colour.

This is where your lack of genetics knowledge is showing. This is why race is not biological: it uses less than 1% of genes to separate populations in the name of 'science', while disregarding the majority of the human genome. This is why every single social and biological scientist agrees that race is social, and not biological.

Genetic ancestry is not social. It is genetic. Cultural ancestry is social, or ritual and habitual, having nothing to do with genetics.

https://blogs.kqed.org/science/2014...ent-in-modern-european-and-asian-populations/

This article states that everyone in the world EXCEPT Africans shares at least 2% of their DNA with neanderthals. If that is not different, then what is? I have no cultural identity with Neanderthal man, yet I am a descendant, sharing up to 6% of my DNA with him. This is absolutely not social, as it happened around 40,000 years ago. Were Neanderthal men not considered a separate species from genetically modern humans? If your assertion that evolutionary changes would leave humans unable to produce viable offspring, then why the hell were Neanderthals able to mate with Homo-Sapiens? They had genetic differences, so do modern human populations. That does not preclude them from producing viable offspring.

So yes, there is a significant difference in dudes from Finland (maybe up to 6% Neanderthal) vs. dudes from Senegal (no biological chance to have any neanderthal DNA, unless they shared a northern euorpean ancestor more recently)


I don't understand why you are stuck on "black" being a race. There are plenty of black people who are very different ethnically and racially from each other, and why can't the fijian man be considered a member of the fijian race, or fijian population?
 
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