An Essential Question

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Just out of curiosity, if the Jazz trade Al before the deadline, does anyone think the Jazz could go on a tear like the Nuggets did after they traded Carmelo in 2010-11?

Yes, that's why I posted addition by subtraction.

I want the Jazz to play the young guys 30 minutes and let the chips fall where they fall. I am not excited or impressed with just making the playoffs. I want the Jazz to win a championship and the only way to do that is to play the young guys and suck for a couple of years and hopefully get two more pieces to the championship puzzle in the next two drafts.

I would be ok with making the playoffs if the "core four" are the reason why.

As far as I'm concerned we are in the top 8 in the west because of the core 4. How many times have they bailed out the starters after going down by double digits this year.

 

[JGolds]

Yes, that's why I posted addition by subtraction.


As far as I'm concerned we are in the top 8 in the west because of the core 4. How many times have they bailed out the starters after going down by double digits this year.

lol, usually they do it twice a game. once 10 mins into the first quarter, and then again in the 3rd lol

 

[Basketball_Romantic23]

I find it hilarious that everytime i mention David locke in a thread, Jazzfanz come out of the woodwork to hate on him. He's not perfect or anything but i don't think he is a shill. I think locke has genuine love for Jazz basketball as well as for the players.

Also, Why is it that Jazz Nation tends to overate all of their all-star caliber players with the exception of Al Jefferson. Jefferson is a legot big and he's even a great dude, like a better dude/teamate than D-will and Boozer but we still tend to hate on him. I don't get it. he may have some weaknesses on the defensive end, but he is our best offensive player easily.

 

[orangello]

I find it hilarious that everytime i mention David locke in a thread, Jazzfanz come out of the woodwork to hate on him. He's not perfect or anything but i don't think he is a shill. I think locke has genuine love for Jazz basketball as well as for the players.

Also, Why is it that Jazz Nation tends to overate all of their all-star caliber players with the exception of Al Jefferson. Jefferson is a legot big and he's even a great dude, like a better dude/teamate than D-will and Boozer but we still tend to hate on him. I don't get it. he may have some weaknesses on the defensive end, but he is our best offensive player easily.

Some weaknesses defensively? Or completely weak defensively?

Yes, he has great footwork but a majority of the time he makes the rest of the team useless.

Just admit it, he hurts the team more then he helps them.

 

[green]

I find it hilarious that everytime i mention David locke in a thread, Jazzfanz come out of the woodwork to hate on him. He's not perfect or anything but i don't think he is a shill. I think locke has genuine love for Jazz basketball as well as for the players.

Also, Why is it that Jazz Nation tends to overate all of their all-star caliber players with the exception of Al Jefferson. Jefferson is a legot big and he's even a great dude, like a better dude/teamate than D-will and Boozer but we still tend to hate on him. I don't get it. he may have some weaknesses on the defensive end, but he is our best offensive player easily.

Al Jefferson is NOT our best player offensively. They guy takes 15 shots to score 17 pts. That is terrible. He is our most inefficient player. We currently have 4 very good bigs and you could argue that Jefferson is the worst one out of all of them.

He is inefficient on offense, he doesn't pass well, he doesn't move well, he can't operate within the flex offense, he can't play a lick of defense, etc, etc, etc. He is a decent rebounder.

If he is our best player then we suck. We are as good as we are in SPITE of Al, not because of Al. You take Al's 15 shots per night and give them to Millsap, Hayward, Burks, Favors, Kanter, Carroll, etc and we are a better offensive and defensive team.

I do honestly believe if Al leaves we go on a big tear ala Denver, and get even better when Mo comes back. If Al stays, then Marvin, Mo, Hayward, Millsap, Favors, Kanter, etc are all made ineffective. Al is the good boy version of Stephon Marbury.

 

[green]

I forgot Marvin in my give shots to players. I think Marvin would look like how we all hoped for if Al was gone, just like Hayward suddenly became a much better player when his minutes were increased without Al playing.

Al is the kindest, nicest, most likable cancer out there.

We will know what the Jazz organization's goals are this offseason. If they let Al walk/trade him, they are trying to win a title. If they resign Al, they are just trying to make money (i.e., make the playoffs then get swept).

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Make the playoffs, win Championship is my choice.

How is no one hopping on my option?

 

[Basketball_Romantic23]

Al Jefferson is NOT our best player offensively. They guy takes 15 shots to score 17 pts. That is terrible. He is our most inefficient player. We currently have 4 very good bigs and you could argue that Jefferson is the worst one out of all of them.

He is inefficient on offense, he doesn't pass well, he doesn't move well, he can't operate within the flex offense, he can't play a lick of defense, etc, etc, etc. He is a decent rebounder.

If he is our best player then we suck. We are as good as we are in SPITE of Al, not because of Al. You take Al's 15 shots per night and give them to Millsap, Hayward, Burks, Favors, Kanter, Carroll, etc and we are a better offensive and defensive team.

I do honestly believe if Al leaves we go on a big tear ala Denver, and get even better when Mo comes back. If Al stays, then Marvin, Mo, Hayward, Millsap, Favors, Kanter, etc are all made ineffective. Al is the good boy version of Stephon Marbury.

You could certainly argue that someone on the Jazz is more efficient offensively, but to say he is our most inefficient player isn't plausible. Al is the only player on the Jazz that you can give the ball and expect him to score around 50 percent of the time. also, his field goal percentage in the last 5 minutes of a game is like higher than anyone else in the league over the last 2 years. factor in the fact that he had like the lowest turnover percentage last year of like any player (specifically, lowest turnover percentage of possessions in the post). in NBA History and i think we can both agree Big Al is effecient on the offensive end. The reality is that you can Give Big Al the ball at the end of the game and know you are going to get at least a decent shot. i'm not sure anyone else on the jazz can do that yet. Sure, I think Hayward, KAnter, and Burks could get there one day, but i don't know if they will be as good as Al in this area.

 

[Basketball_Romantic23]

How is no one hopping on my option?

I love the Jazz and I have been waiting nearly all my life to see them win a championship, but the reality is that such an option is more unlikely then Carlos Boozer taking less money to play for am organization that prides itself in being team oriented.

 

[green]

You could certainly argue that someone on the Jazz is more efficient offensively, but to say he is our most inefficient player isn't plausible. Al is the only player on the Jazz that you can give the ball and expect him to score around 50 percent of the time. also, his field goal percentage in the last 5 minutes of a game is like higher than anyone else in the league over the last 2 years. factor in the fact that he had like the lowest turnover percentage last year of like any player (specifically, lowest turnover percentage of possessions in the post). in NBA History and i think we can both agree Big Al is effecient on the offensive end. The reality is that you can Give Big Al the ball at the end of the game and know you are going to get at least a decent shot. i'm not sure anyone else on the jazz can do that yet. Sure, I think Hayward, KAnter, and Burks could get there one day, but i don't know if they will be as good as Al in this area.

Give me a break. He is our most inefficient offensive player. Just because he won't pass and takes every shot he gets doesn't mean he is our best offensive player.

Just the most willing. This team will be better without Al.

 

[Basketball_Romantic23]

Also, why is it that we sing the praises of Burks even after he would have a night of Going like 1-9 from the field, 3 TO and no assists. I think Burks could be great, and I like Burks, but it seems like we are hating on the wrong people sometimes. Jefferson deserves a little more love, and Corbin did the right thing this season in regards to Burks. Burks is now more unselfish with the baszketball, he is learning how to play with teamates and he is a more willing defender. Corbin's way of making Burks work for the playing time he gets will likely be better for burks in the end. To cool for school just isn't the greatest additude for burks to have. if anything, that will negate what he can be.

 

[Basketball_Romantic23]

Give me a break. He is our most inefficient offensive player. Just because he won't pass and takes every shot he gets doesn't mean he is our best offensive player.

Just the most willing. This team will be better without Al.

I could buy into the argument that he isn't right for the flex offensive. i get it, but Al is still efficient for all the reasons i gave. let us consider just the post players. Kanter will get better and i think he'll be pretty good when all is said and done, but Kanter turns the ball over like 35% of his possessions in the post. that is significant. Millsap struggles in the one on one game and benifits a lot from playing off of Big Al, and Favors is obviously very raw still offensively, though getting better. If you can honestly say that you would rather see the ball in the hands of Favors or Kanter at the end of a game, then that isn't logical. According to statistics, Jefferson is one of the top 5 most efficient post players in the league. That is just the way it is. I can buy into the idea that he hinders ball movement or isn't the best for the flex option. I realize that Boozer, as much as i don't really care for the guy, was a better fit for the Flex offense, but Jefferson is still extremely efficient in the post. it is entirely unreasonable to say he is our most inefficient player.

 

[green]

I could buy into the argument that he isn't right for the flex offensive. i get it, but Al is still efficient for all the reasons i gave. let us consider just the post players. Kanter will get better and i think he'll be pretty good when all is said and done, but Kanter turns the ball over like 35% of his possessions in the post. that is significant. Millsap struggles in the one on one game and benifits a lot from playing off of Big Al, and Favors is obviously very raw still offensively, though getting better. If you can honestly say that you would rather see the ball in the hands of Favors or Kanter at the end of a game, then that isn't logical. According to statistics, Jefferson is one of the top 5 most efficient post players in the league. That is just the way it is. I can buy into the idea that he hinders ball movement or isn't the best for the flex option. I realize that Boozer, as much as i don't really care for the guy, was a better fit for the Flex offense, but Jefferson is still extremely efficient in the post. it is entirely unreasonable to say he is our most inefficient player.

You are a BYU fan aren't you? Way to completely change the argument to try to make yourself look smart.

I never said that I wanted the ball in Favors or Kanter's hands at the end of a game.

Millsap, Hayward, Foye, Marvin, Mo, Burks are all more efficient players and I believe could step up and fill Al's shoes just fine.

Al is so terrible in a TEAM offensive system that Sloan (Or Johnson) couldn't even find anything to do with him.

I'd take Burks/Mo and Favors/Marvin/Millsap in a pick and roll play over Al in the post late in the game any time.

 

[Basketball_Romantic23]

You are a BYU fan aren't you? Way to completely change the argument to try to make yourself look smart.

I never said that I wanted the ball in Favors or Kanter's hands at the end of a game.

Millsap, Hayward, Foye, Marvin, Mo, Burks are all more efficient players and I believe could step up and fill Al's shoes just fine.

Al is so terrible in a TEAM offensive system that Sloan (Or Johnson) couldn't even find anything to do with him.

I'd take Burks/Mo and Favors/Marvin/Millsap in a pick and roll play over Al in the post late in the game any time.

If this is truly the case, then it is a good thing you are not coaching the Jazz. ha... Jefferson is still super efficient. Why can't you accept that?

 

[orangello]

If this is truly the case, then it is a good thing you are not coaching the Jazz. ha... Jefferson is still super efficient. Why can't you accept that?

If you are talking about him being efficient from an overall perspective, ie both sides of the ball as well as intangibles, then I would say that he is not efficient. If we are just talking about him being efficient defensively, then no, he is not efficient. On the other hand, if we are talking about him being efficient offensively then I would have to say that he is not efficient.

Big Al gets his at the expense of everyone else on the floor. If that means efficiency then I have been confused about this and apparently a lot of other things throughout my life. I guess there is an "I" in team when Jefferson is playing for you.

 

[Basketball_Romantic23]

If you are talking about him being efficient from an overall perspective, ie both sides of the ball as well as intangibles, then I would say that he is not efficient. If we are just talking about him being efficient defensively, then no, he is not efficient. On the other hand, if we are talking about him being efficient offensively then I would have to say that he is not efficient.

Big Al gets his at the expense of everyone else on the floor. If that means efficiency then I have been confused about this and apparently a lot of other things throughout my life. I guess there is an "I" in team when Jefferson is playing for you.

Big AL Is Efficient in the Post.

 

[MoTappin]

I'm gonna say option 4, since all of those options really play into handing the reigns over to the young guys, even if Al or Paul (I'd prefer Paul) stay put for the time being. That is the ultimate goal, whether via trades or letting them walk.

 

[bigmike]

I'm in the camp that wants Jefferson traded and Paul to stay. I'd prefer we re-sign Sap, to be perfectly honest. I think it keeps us in the playoffs this year and gives us an excellent frontcourt rotation for the near-term future. Next season, Favors slides into the starting five at C and Kanter spells Favors/Millsap to the tune of 28-32 mpg.

 

[Basketball_Romantic23]

Big Al looked great last night and he was... Wait for it... wait for it... EFFICIENT!! yes, that is correct. Efficient. Lets be reasonable and Give Big Al a little more love. I'll be the first to say he isn't perfect, but let's not ignore that he has strengths. His post game is fabulous and he is about to set a new record in his career for most assists in a season. That means he is improving. He is committed to evolve his game if it means team success. He has even changed the way he plays in the post by playing more face up rather than back to the basket. His PER is higher than anyone else on the team and if you know how Player Efficiency rating works, than it means Big AL, at 21.25, is a pretty good player. What more can you ask? Green? Orangello? Anyone?

 

[billyshelby]

Was very pleased to hear Lindsey dismiss the notion that we have a 'Core 4' last night on the telecast. May not mean much, but it was better than hearing the FO thinks those guys are untouchable.